Having driven the car in question makes my opinion worth infinitely more than yours. That is indisputable.

Modesty clearly isn't an issue where you're concerned, but I have a pretty fair idea of my own driving abilities.

Trying to pretend that the electronic systems in a Porsche are somehow different from those in other cars is just pointless semantics -just like VDC in the GT-R, they exist in an effort to stop litigation-hungry Americans crashing. Don't confuse these with how the 4WD systems work.

 

Having driven a car that's not yours to an extent that no one knows makes your opinion worth diddly squat. For all we know you could have turned it on and driven from the valet parking spot to a customer, does that make you an expert?

You don't own anything to speak of, and all we have is your word that you have even driven anything. There are several people posting here that know me personally and have driven with me, so who's opinion do you think they will be more inclined to go with? Do I have to drive the GT-R to know that VDC ON is more intrusive than PSM OFF???

Have you driven the GT-R to it's limits in all of the various traction control configurations? Have you driven any of the above to their limits in the same places and done a detailed analysis of which one reacts how and where? I'd bet no, and that my friend makes your opinion just as irrelevant as anyone who hasn't driven the GT-R. Your cruises around town in somebody elses ride, don't mean jack.

I know the limits of PSM and PASM very well and what they are engineered to achieve, and I also know what reputable drivers have said about their impressions of the GT-R at the limit, and they dont match up. To me that is enough to draw a solid conclusion in spite of your so called "expertise".

 

I really have a hard time believing that anyone can render a reasonable opinion of someone else's car from a limited test ride/drive. Trommel if you got to wring-out one of the Jspec Nissan press ringers on a track for a weekend then it may be worthwhile to weigh your opinion. I drove a friend's F430 and Gt2 for 30 min each and I am not the kind of tosser that would beat on a friend's car and take advantage of his generosity. I would suspect that you would act in kind.

 

Exactly! I've even driven Jenk12M's M6 on track and didn't get close to the limits. You cant test the limits when you don't know what they are and anyone, including pro drivers hopping in various cars is going to be at the limit in that period of time.

Trommel's proclaimed experience is utterly useless.

 

I think you'd find PSM for the 997TT is very different from the 997 CS, or 996TT for that matter.

 

It's so unobtrusive that they turned it off completely to do their pseudo-7:29 Ring run?

 

As I have already explained (you clearly read very selectively), I drove a Japanese-spec GT-R for a few laps of Silverstone National Circuit and also a different Japanese-spec car on a coned autocross-style course. I drove in both VDC On and R modes, and there is a huge difference between them. The events were competitive and the autocross course was timed.

On the National Circuit the instructor told me to drive the car "like you stole it" - whilst I have some mechanical sympathy and a modicum of respect for others' property, I did drive it hard (140+ from memory on the Club Straight, lots of power oversteer in R mode and almost outbraked myself going into Maggotts) so I would respectfully suggest that I have a slightly better idea of what the car is about than you can claim.

In fact, I'm interested to know where your information comes from - you have never driven the car in any capacity and you refuse to listen to anything journalists write about it (as they are driving tuned "ringer" cars, being bribed by Nissan to say nice things, lying to sell magazines, etc.). That only leaves the word of your "reputable drivers" (who clearly aren't journalists or racing drivers and obviously don't post here or on any other web fora) or third-hand, fabricated nonsense you pick up on the internet and skew to your liking.

As for you telling me that I "don't own anything to speak of" - that is a breathtakingly arrogant assumption, exactly as I would expect.

I look forward to futher demonstrations of your credibility in discussing the car.

 

Ditto in the GT-R. I define obstrusive as a noticable reduction in power or application of brakes. Unless I screw up, I never notice/feel that in either the TT or the GT-R. I suspect, hwoever, that the GT-R helper-bot is actualy intervening seemlessly by managing the AWD system and maybe a touch of corrective braking. The light doesn't blink and you don't feel that bogging from power oss of the vibration of PSM. I have just assumed that that is how this 4000 pound beast manages to do such amazing things on track.

 

Not sure I agree with you. No system wil make you faster if you are a terrible driver. They will quickly go into aggressive intervention mode if you really screw up. I think the GT-R have a more progressive intervention which can make you faster.

In theory, any drive in any car should be faster with computer controls. We only have one brake pedal, but four brakes. And there is no manual control for the center diff. Nissan just does it better: using the computer to get the most out of the car, and not just keep you safe. Explain to me how that is bad?

 

I agree with that in general, although you can begin to get a feel for a car with just a few laps. But a true A/B test requires a fair bit of seat time, and hopefully some GPS telemetry.

Trommel: don't feel bad, I track both cars and have GPS data, but guys here still question my input. Oh well.

 

+1
The Germans are renowned for efficiency. Efficiency is good. A car which makes more use of it's available power compared with a similar powered car shows how more efficient it is and hence its superiority. This cannot be a bad thing.
Its too bad the Germans have been outdone in efficiency this time by the Japanese with the GTR

 

I never said either will make you faster. I said one will emphasize mistakes where the other is engineered to cover them up. I'm not talking about wild flailing all over the place, I'm talking about minor infractions.

In theory, yes, cars are faster without controls no matter what they want you to think.

You are saying the same thing I am only you call it better for computer aids to help you be faster. I'd like to know where I messed up and for the computers to slow me down so I can fix it and when it's done right, no computer interferance. This is why Trommel complains of more interaction with PSM than VDC, but he's too clueless to know it.

 

You said you drove. No pics, no verification, just a Trommoll in here saying they have tons of time in Porsches and GT-R's. Go figure.

The road course was competitive but not timed? How else are you competing?

 

I think it's a moot point considering the GT-R won't be in any racing series without major changes and we all know the extent of Porsches being raced around the world at all levels.

 

Amen dude!