Hi, I need some advice on how to buy and negotiate a new 991 Turbo/ S from the dealership. I live in Los Angeles. For instance:

Is it ok to custom order one with bare bone options?
How much can I negotiate on the price?
Should I mass email dealerships in my area to see who can offer me the lowest price?

I have previously owned a 997.2 C2 but it was bought from a private individual. Any advice would help. Thanks!

 

 

A turbo is fairly loaded, a Turbo S is very loaded. You can add or not add. I doubt the dealer cares too much.
Price is hard to negotiate without your personal experience with a dealer. If you've bought cars from them before with a discount, they're more likely to give you a discount again.
I got a discount on my Turbo, but I've bought many Porsche cars from them in the past.

I moved to a new city, and my new dealer would offer zero discount on a 911. I called my old dealer and now I'm ordering a car out of state from the old dealer.

My old dealer said that most dealers get only one turbo allotment per year. Some can't even sell a Turbo, they use it as trade bait to get cars they can sell.

California is a fickle market. On other car forums like Range Rover they refuse to give any discounts, and treat you like crap for even asking. I know California buys the most Porsches by far. I wonder if they wheel and deal more there, or hold proffit because there are so many wealthy customers.

 

I really enjoy Nick Murray. That's a good video the first post gave you.
You should watch his review on the Turbo S too. Very fun.

 

Yeah he's an entertaining character..tells it the way it is too

 

While I didn't watch the video someone posted I'm sure one thing that was stressed was there are a number of tactics to use to buy a car at a savings. So what follows works for me but you may prefer to modify or customize or of course totally reject as unsuitable for you.

My experience has been to try to learn what the dealer's cost of a car is and start my negotiating from that point. That is you should not start your negotation at the asking price and try to work down but start at the bottom and work up, but slowly.

As an aside the advice I have received and which I have followed is if one does decide to up his offer and almost certainly he will is to up it after some delay and not by much. Also, if one ups his offer again, don't add another $1000 or $500 but half or less of the amount you upped your offer before. For instance if you upped your offer by $500 and the new higher price was rejected -- and it will be -- your next offer only up it by no more than $250 and less is better. You convey that you are not going to be walked to the seller's price in $500 steps.

My negotation takes place after I have found a suitable car which involves online searches and then visiting the dealer -- when it is closed! -- to view the car and check it out as best I can. (When I was shopping for what proved to be the Turbo I bought I visited the dealer several times and ended up on the ground next to the car shining a bright flash light at the various areas visible looking for any signs of any issues.)

As for buying a new Turbo S, a problem is Turbo S's don't grow on trees and the dealer may not feel all that compelled to let the car go at a discount preferring to wait for a buyer who'll pay full price.

Still a sales/general manager is only human and someone standing on the sales floor with a handful of Turbo S cash is hard to resist, even if the handful is less than the sales/general manager had in mind.

I suspect an S comes pretty well equipped so I'm not sure what bare bones options there is available. However, you can order a car any way you like.

Keep in mind though if you order a car too radically optioned -- and this can mean too bare bones -- the dealer may want a larger deposit and it may -- if the law allows it -- make this non-refundable. This is to protect the dealer if you back out and the dealer is left with a car optioned in such a way to make it a tough sale.

A dealer generally uses the fact a car is optioned/ordered as an excuse to charge full price. (Really though a dealer needs no real excuse to do this. The fact the sun rises in the east is sufficient.)

OTOH, you can argue the dealer has a sure sale with a payment (and a price!) all worked out beforehand so there is no flooring cost, no advertising cost and you can then just treat this as you would buying a car off the floor. Figure out what the dealer's cost is and start your negotiation from there.

I've never ordered a car instead buying something off the floor. My tactic is to know as best I can what the dealer's cost is for the car I have in mind, know the market. (Once negotiated and bought a 2001 Camaro -- $5K under sticker -- when dealers has a 200 day supply. By way of comparison, a 30 day supply is deemed excessive inventory.)

I also have alternatives. That is I have a list of candidate cars, cars that are the same as the one I'm looking at but located at other dealers, and cars that are in the same class as the one I'm looking at but are of a different brand. I have make/model/year, some notes on options, prices, phone numbers, etc., to show I've done my "homework".

The idea is to use this to impress upon the dealer that I'm going to buy a car. Today. Provided I can work out a suitable deal I'll buy the car from the dealer. If not I'll walk off the lot and go and buy the car somewhere else. The idea is to make the dealer believe if he sees me walk away he has lost a sale to another seller.

Also, this is important, because you are offering such a low price you have to be sure your offer is actually getting submitted to the sales manager/general manager. Your offer will be so low the salesman sees his commission essentially zero and will say "no". In fact the salesman can only say "no". Even if you offered the asking price and he did say "yes" he still has to get the OK from the sales/general manager.

While a salesman will reject a low ball offer a sales/general manager maybe not.

When I was negotating for my 2002 Boxster I made my initial offer based on what I believed the dealer had in the car. I heard a voice over in the other cube -- behind a cube wall -- saying something to the effect "that's $200 (or some number I forget now what it was) below my cost.". I then replied back at the voice an offer that included the amount the voice had stated my initial offer was short. We went back and forth -- the salesman was quiet -- and were unable to reach an agreement. I left to grab a bite to eat and think about why my attempt to buy the car failed. I had a lot of confidence in my numbers. Understand I was negotating for a car that cost more than double what I had paid for my previous car.

Away from the dealer and relaxing having a bite to eat I realized I had forgotten to factor in the flooring cost the dealer had in the car. I went back and asked to see the car again. I checked the door tag and determined when the car was made and thus could estimate how long the dealer had the car (figure a dealer gets a car one month after the date on the door tag) and calculated the dealer's flooring cost and went back and upped my offer by that amount. Again I heard the voice from the other cube: "We'll take it." Ended getting a $47K+ Boxster for $42K+. Later in signing the papers I found out that was the general manager I was talking to. My success was in part helped by the fact it was the dead of winter with snow on the ground.

It was the general manager that accepted my offer for the Camaro. It was kind of puzzling to me that after the GM had accepted my offer the salesman and the GM were huddled together having a discussion that lasted longer than the one I had in buying the car. Afterwards when I when I told my Dad about this he said the GM was working out a "deal" to try to make the salesman happy since my price had nothing in it for the salesman's commission.

When I bought my used Turbo and made my low offer (but one based on research I had done) the salesman of course reacted unfavorably but said he'd take the offer to his manager. I asked where his manager was and was told he was in the next building. I said something to the effect to save the salesman time and steps I'd come with him and I walked over and we sat at a desk just outside the GM's office. Like before very shortly after I sat down the negotiation was between the GM and myself with the salesman just sitting there quiet. And again I ended up getting the car thousands under its asking price.

Simiarly when I bought my 2002 Golf and my 2006 GTO and my 2008 Cayman S my negotations were with the sales/general manager (in the case of the Cayman S the sales/general manager was also the owner of the dealership) and not the salesman. Might add in the case of the Cayman S the price was already heavily discounted. The car stickered for $62.6K and I bought it for $50.6K the price at which it was listed. The "negotiation" involved the trade in value for my 2006 GTO.

My point is in all of the above cases I bought a car at considerably under the asking price and I did so even though the salesman (or in the case of the VW a saleswoman) said "no" or would have had I not taken the trouble to ensure my offer was given to the sales/general manager.

Another point is a sales/general manager is hard pressed to say "no" (provided of course the offer isn't too low) when the offer is made by someone -- me in this case -- who has made it clear by words and action he is going to buy a car today. If not from the dealer where he currently is at some other dealer.

The above is just some input. Get input from a number of people and come up with a car buying plan that feels comfortable to you. Part of my success I think is because I'm quite relaxed and sure of my numbers and the market. (The flooring cost oversight notwithstanding.)

Oh, keep in mind a few things: One is price is not fact only an opinion. Two is there is always another car. And three is even if you are unsuccessful and walk off the floor you can always come back. I did, and the same day too, when I bought the Boxster. I let a week or so go by when my initial attempt to buy the VW Golf was unsuccessful but the return trip had me owning the car at hundreds less than sticker when everyone on the VW forums told me no way could I get a Golf TDi for anything under sticker. The Turbo I bought the same day I made my offer. The GTO ditto. And likewise the Camaro.

It is important to note that buying a car, in this case a Turbo S, should be a fun experience. Sure it can be a bit intense, since so much money is involved, but overall the experience should be pleasurable. Anger -- from the sales staff -- or vitriol or anything that renders the experience unpleasant is a big turn off to me and will have me out of the dealer faster than a speeding bullet.

My belief is the next best thing to owning/driving a Porsche is the experience of shopping/buying one's next Porsche.

Happy shopping!

Forgot to mention but this is important. If you order a car you must have in writing the price, the negotiated price, with no blanks on the purchase agreement. This agreement must be a pretty ironclad agreement for what can and does happen is the car comes in but someone offers the dealer more money than you have indicated you are willing to pay and then sells the car to someone else out from under you. A bit underhanded perhaps but a dealer is a car seller first and foremost.

Of course, being "ironclad" you had better be sure you want the car and will want it when it comes in sometimes months after you orderd it.

 

I sent you a PM.

 

I didn't read the entire post but this stood out to me. It's quite the opposite. Car salespersons are commissioned based on their own performance and if they don't sell a car, they don't make money. Whereas the Sales Manager, General Sales Manager, and General Manager get paid based on the overall sales of the departments they oversee.

 

A few Porsche dealers I've come across the salesmen aren't under commission.
It's radical but it prevents cut throat behavior and the 2 salesmen work as a team.

Sales managers will often hold onto proffit, but sometimes they are short on a quota and willing to let a car walk off cheap to make it.
Sometimes the dealer gets a bonus for selling enough cars to hit a quota.
When I worked at a Toyota dealer they once sold a car for a couple thousand under invoice. It only happened once though.

The salesman has little to no power. I'd take the customer on a test drive, sat them back in my temporary shared "office" and I had to walk back and forth between the customer and the sales manager desk. I got commision based on the car's profit, not on the total price of the car. I could sell a Rav4 and make 1,000, or I can sell a 40,000 sequoia and make 50. It all depends on the negotiations that took place.

When I tried buying a car in the city I live in now, the salesman brought my offer to his sales manager and couldn't get it done. I had a short talk with the sales manager in the dealer I had a relationship with and he got me the deal I wanted. Probably not the greatest deal ever, but I was satisfied and it's what I asked for.

 

I agree with Macster on negotiating with the general manager directly. From personal experience, the best deals I've had were negotiated directly with the them vs salesman as the middle man.
I recently witnessed a friend get an unheard of deal on a new Z06 where the salesman told him "I'm not even taking that to my boss, you talk to him directly". When told the number the manager promptly said "ok, deal" to which the salesman's jaw dropped.

All this said, what is the real world price on a 991.2TT? Are they that difficult to get/order where the dealers are holding all the cards?

 

Real world 'price' seems impossible to state because of the variance in options which can up or down the MSRP by tens (and tens more!) thousands of dollars. Therefore a percentage discount - regardless of the MSRP - is what I chase. Higher volume dealers will (a) likely have more inventory, (b) have better relationships with other dealers for dealer exchange opportunities, and (c) likely have more allocations available to them to order new cars including Turbos. If you deal directly with the sales manager or general manager and convince them that you are the real deal and don't have to chase financing or get approval from your wife, girlfriend (or both) my experience is that you can get between a 5-7% discount of an ordered car and perhaps better for something on the lot.

 

Salesmen have to sell cars to make money but they won't or don't like to sell a car for less than its asking price. A lower price cuts into the commission.

(My father-in-law sold cars, first new, then used, then moved to RV's. Even if a buyer offered sticker his job was to try to get even more money out of the buyer by offering a warranty, rust proofing, dealer add-ons: floor mats, or something.)

If one does it right -- and provided the market supports this low of an offer -- the salesman is going to see his commission quite reduced perhaps even eliminated. He's going to say no. Or worse, take your offer to his manager and then come back and tell you his manager rejected the offer. Or even worse, not take your offer to his manager and yet come back and tell you the offer was rejected.

Some years ago, during my first new car purchase, I was trying to buy a car -- a new Ford -- and was going back and forth with the salesman. We'd talk and I'd come up with an offer and off the salesman would go to present the offer to his manager. After some time he'd return with the info his manager rejected the offer. This happened again and the 3rd time I smelled a rat and after a moment followed the salesman. He never even went to his manager. I caught him in the break room having a smoke. (This gives you some idea of how long ago as smoking at work/inside was still allowed here in CA.) I ended up buying a new Ford but at another dealer.

My info is only the sales/general manager knows what the dealer has in the car and only he can say "yes" to an offer.

Because one's initial offer is so low one has to be sure he is speaking to the sales/general manager.

 

I get your point, but it's not a salespersons job to determine if its a deal or not, it's the sales managers. They're just there to get a committed offer. Yes a low offer will cut into commission, maybe to the point they only get a minimum commission of say a hundred bucks, but a low commission is better than no commission, wouldn't you say? There's a saying in the car dealership industry, "if you walk a customer, you walk with them" which could mean a few different things but one of them that pertains to this situation is "if you walk a customer because you thought his committed offer was too low without presenting it to me, the sales manager, you walk with him because it's my job as the sales manager to make the decision the offer was too low, not yours"

Regardless, dealership pay plans are hardly a standardized thing. Some bonus plans are based on volume, some are based on overall gross profit. So in a way were both right.