OP487,

I don't know if tis will help, but I leased my 991 from Hennessey Porsche in Atlanta (they deliver to California). I forgot the residual values and what not, but I putdown about $7k and my payment with taxes included is roughly about $880 a month for 24 months and 5K mi per year. The sticker was $97K.

Heres a link to the specials they have now. PM me if you want to know more.

http://hennessy.porschedealer.com/specials/new/

 

a couple of other points not mentioned yet (don't think I missed them) are:
1. at the end of the lease, if you want to keep the car, you can probably negotiate with the dealer for your car to be CPO'd. The mechanics I'm not going to go into, since each deal can be slightly different.
2. If you own, you get into an accident and its reported for insurance (hopefully no accidents whatsoever) no matter what severity, if you own the car, you take a hit on resale. Carfax doesn't distinguish on the type of claim reported or the cost. Lease offers an opportunity to get out without any need to negotiate.

I've been leasing recently. I always bought before. In addition to the monthly payments, I look at the total cost of ownership: sum of lease payments + residual vs sum of financing payments + down payment to see which is more expensive.

These are just data points that factor into my thinking for leasing vs buying, in addition what others have mentioned.

 

This is my first porsche. I had not done any prior business with the salesman. I was simply a fool angry at BMW, whom wanted a fun car to drive if I could rationalize the math. I have heard lots of feedback that socal dealers run a tighter ship, and many have settled for 3-5%, while out on the east coast getting 6-8% is totally doable. I am in upstate NY.

Have all the math done on your lease before you get there. Have your checkbook and such in hand and be firm but polite about what your willing to pay. You will undoubtedly get numerous lines such as "we just can't sell them that cheap....no porsche dealer could or they would not be a sound business....my manager would never approve it." All you have to say is that I can and have already confirmed that I can get this identical car shipped to my house with an 8% discount. I am willing to call it 6-7% because I recognize the cost of shipping the vehicle is relevant, and I would strongly prefer to deal locally, with you. If you can make x% happen, then I am ready to start signing papers today, but if not I just cannot rationalize spending thousands more for no reason.

This all assumes you know how to calculate a lease. There are calculators online, quick google search, that will make it a breeze.

best of luck

 

Interesting thread. I am new to Porsche and the 991. Could someone here give me feedback on the following deal?
991 S 117K 24 months 10K per year 7K out of pocket $1240 per month including CA tax. Thanks!

 

1) A person can either buy the car at the end of the lease or return it . The original contract is with Porsche NOT the dealership . If it is then CPO processed then he could buy it back . The final buyout number is often thousands above wholesale and CPO status costs a dealership money .

In short after overpaying for two years to use the car he gets to pay even more to keep it ? He needs two transactions instead of ONE (on day 1) ? Oh but he has CPO !! Big deal . The car already has a 4 year warranty , he drove it for two , but now wants to keep it even longer than the end of the factory warranty ?

The logic is so irrational that it baffles me.

2) Diminished Value -- I agree that a major collision impacts resale or trade in on a purchases car. BUT !!!!--- His lease overpayed so much that he could have 10 accidents and still lose more than had he bought the car . He is overpaying so much that its as if he paying for a ruined car even if it didn't have a blemish.
PLUS - What about the time it sits in a collision shop ? He is paying that too .

 

I love the lease terminology used on the thread . I find it so amusing that so often the lease terms are used buy the customer to attempt to justify why they just stepped into a pile of financial muck !!!

I mean this sincerely .. the salesperson is no fool. He may not know sqaut about mathematics but he doesn't have to because the cards are already stacked in his favor . Leasing is a mathematical manipulation calibrated at sending a confused customer into a red herring journey into problem solving aimed at shifting his attention from the ONLY number that really matters (the total cost) . In short its like a card magician using his OWN deck of cards . Oh and BTW .. there is one more number .. the next lease !!! because the leasee will get right back on that treadmill and do it all overagain !!

Lastly -- As a multiple time Porsche owner who has never leased one I can sincerely say that most Porsche owners really love their cars . Many of them are repeat buyers . Many even buy and hold the car long term . As bad as the lease numbers are comparably for the small two or three year window imagine if he kept the car for 6 and compared it to THREE 2 year leases !!

If we were discussing BMW or other cars where sophisticated leases are more closely proportioned to purchase comparisons then the gap woild at least be smaller but with a Porsche 911 its so huge that one almost has to close his eyes not to see it.

 

Not sure why some folks are so anti-leasing. For certain situations leasing is much better than purchasing. Do the math! For someone who never keeps his car more than 2 years leasing probably makes more sense than dumping $20-30K into a car that he's going to get rid of in 24 months. There's an opportunity cost to that money. If you're going to keep the car for 5 years, then yes, go ahead and purchase it. There's no difference between leasing a Honda and a Porsche. A car is a car. If the money factor, residual, etc. fit your budget it's all the same.

 

The C2S leases are poor deals, lower residual than C2. Even C2 at 0.002 is a very high rate. Leases are all about good leasing program, if not, financing at a low rate is better.

 

please go to town hall on edmunds.com and search for 911 thread. This is the place to go to get an understanding of leases, mf, terms, etc. - and specfiics on your questions on this topic.
Good luck.

 

Clearly you lack the broader understanding of financing to understand when it does and does not make sense to own an asset. A car is nothing more than a rapidly depreciating asset. As such I view it as purely an expense which I choose to incur for my entertainment.

You would not lease as you drive your 911 very little, 15k miles in 6 years according to your recent post. I intend to drive my 991 18k miles this year alone. I do not reserve my 911 for Sunday brunch at the country club. I park it at hockey games amongst 97 civics and corollas, on the street in so so neighborhoods, and in the first spot I see at the grocery store. It's a car I plan to drive as intended, everyday.

So lets put it this way. Your 997 turbo has cost you roughly 50k in depreciation for the 15k miles you have spent driving it, or $3.33 per mile. I will pay porsche 30k to drive my 991 36,000 miles over the next two years, or $.83 per mile. I realize you are driving a turbo, but I could also say I am going to be in a brand new car the whole time. I could care less about how long the car sits in my garage, I care about how many miles I spend behind the wheel, the condition of the vehicle, and what I am paying to do so. You may also point to the fact that the depreciation curve flattens during the years you are in currently with your 997, to me this is negated by the fact that the vehicle is dated and I would have little interest owning it in lieu of a 991.

I have no idea why you think leases on BMWs are more logical, aside from the friendly service policy I see no logic. While BMW has ridiculously low rates, porsche has inflated residuals combined with generous conquest programs for lessees. I negotiated leases with roughly 7% discount and base rate on my last two BMWs and my porsche. A quick glance at the cost of the vehicle to the cost per mile to lease shows the following.

BMW x5: msrp 68k, sale price 63240, payment 810x36months= 29,160/45k miles= .648 per mile

991: msrp 102k, sale price 94860, payment 1225x24months= 29,400/36k miles
= .816 per mile

102k/68k = 991 cost exactly 50% more
.816/.648= 991 costs 26% more per mile

Sounds reasonable to me. I just can't wrap my head around people who buy and keep long term only to put 2-3k miles a year on a car that was meant to be driven.

 

Good thread - thanks for all the info.

Is the X5 a three year lease?

I agree that in certain situations a lease is a viable option. There is no right or wrong - in certain situations a lease makes more sense.

Normally I buy all my cars but in recent years I started leasing as there are a few other things to consider.

- Tax on the purchase price: The CA sales tax is something you will never get back when you buy and that's almost 10% of the purchase price.

- Sample other brands: I also want to try out a few cars which is why leased my M5 at a crazy low $899 per month. After 11K miles I loved the car but the small gas tank and limited range were something I couldn't deal with and wanted out of the car - so I transferred the lease.

- Selling a used high priced car: It is not easy to sell a used car privately when the price rises above $30K. Few people have that kind of cash and will need financing. You are in for a long wait for just the right buyer or you have to take less than market value and trade it in (or sell it) to the dealer.

- Technology changes: I currently lease my Volt and the gas savings alone almost pay for the lease. In two more years there will be a better version with better range and I don't want to be stuck with version one technology.

 

Yes the x5 was a three year lease, that is thankfully coming to an end this August. The car starting acting like a lemon 2 years + into the lease. Glad I can walk away as my v8 x5 is surely not worth the 62% residual that my lease says it is. Particularly with the new one coming out in a few months.

I realize these are just back of a napkin calculations and everyone has their own methods of calculating value for utility offered. I guess this is just my defense of lessees, whom approach car buying eyes wide open, armed with a sincere understanding of different methods of getting the cars they want on their own terms.

 

Most Porsche sports car drivers put very little miles each year, your case is an exception not a rule.

Besides, if someone is putting a lot of miles on a sports car, most of the miles are likely highway miles. There are usually much better alternatives to a sports car for mostly highway driving.

I have no doubt your situation fits you well, unfortunately most people are not in your shoes.

 

Wow - advice on which roads we should drive our cars....

 

Understood. I find the 991 to be a fantastic car to be in at all times, it's actually a big part of the 911 draw IMHO. I suppose what I am saying is: yes leasing is expensive, but so is not driving your car which is rapidly losing its value. Akin to taking too long to eat your ice cream on a hot day.