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991 issues update and lemon law filling new video

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  #106  
Old 04-17-2014, 08:27 AM
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Honestly, you should forgo arbitration (I can't recall but it may be binding arbitration) and just sue under the Lemon Law. Each state has it's own criteria but it is generally a reasonable bar related to time spent in the shop and extent of the problem encountered. Again, depending on the state, there may even be a "loss of use" clause which might allow for damages above what the car is worth. Arbitration is fine in some circumstances but the mere fact that PCNA is advocating this should set of an alarm indicating that they think this option will cost them the least.

We had a DFI engine problem with a 2007 A4 and got No Joy from Audi (and this was just a CEL that kept coming on; you'd never know there was a problem but the CEL belied something bigger). It got so absurd that at one point Audi of North America accused us of putting "bad gas" in the car - and then they suggested arbitration. I think this was the point where decided to use the California Lemon Law to file a claim.

The point is, once you file you are going to force the manufacturer to specifically respond and they are not going to be able to respond with a bunch of technical crap. (They either identified the problem and fixed or they didn't and if they didn't, why not?) At ay rate, with legal recourse, you are no longer relying on the goodwill of someone at PCNA to answer your call or move the process along - they answer the complaint or risk summary judgement. In most case these things are settled before trial.
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  #107  
Old 04-17-2014, 08:33 AM
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WOW! This is pitiful. PCNA, a company that DOES NOT stand behind their product. Good cars, lousy company.
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  #108  
Old 04-17-2014, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by nmurray22 View Post
YES I have aged!! and got fat! The stress of this ****
I don't know how long you've lived in the US, but in addition to seeking a resolution to their saddling you with a ****ty car, you can sue them for the weight gain and resultant health risks. Might as well get all you can while you're at it. Here in America, it's always somebody else's fault. And since PCNA is obviously intent on opening their purse strings, you may as well reach in with both hands. What a country. If you have a good lawyer and an attitudinal teenager, you may be able to hold PCNA accountable for your kid's incredibly disrespectful disposition. You know, you're neglecting his/her needs while having to spend so much time trying to get PCNA to do the right thing. This could really add up! All it takes is the right lawyer.

Good luck.
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  #109  
Old 04-17-2014, 08:51 AM
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how is sales tax handled under lemon law cases.
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  #110  
Old 04-17-2014, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Domer911 View Post
I don't know how long you've lived in the US, but in addition to seeking a resolution to their saddling you with a ****ty car, you can sue them for the weight gain and resultant health risks. Might as well get all you can while you're at it. Here in America, it's always somebody else's fault. And since PCNA is obviously intent on opening their purse strings, you may as well reach in with both hands. What a country. If you have a good lawyer and an attitudinal teenager, you may be able to hold PCNA accountable for your kid's incredibly disrespectful disposition. You know, you're neglecting his/her needs while having to spend so much time trying to get PCNA to do the right thing. This could really add up! All it takes is the right lawyer.

Good luck.
I can hear the sarcasm in you voice but unfortunately its the truth. When there is no consequence for losing you might as well ask for everything under the sun. All the judge can do is say no.
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  #111  
Old 04-17-2014, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanderfalke View Post
how is sales tax handled under lemon law cases.
Covered in CT.

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  #112  
Old 04-17-2014, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Tcc1999 View Post
Honestly, you should forgo arbitration (I can't recall but it may be binding arbitration) and just sue under the Lemon Law. Each state has it's own criteria but it is generally a reasonable bar related to time spent in the shop and extent of the problem encountered. Again, depending on the state, there may even be a "loss of use" clause which might allow for damages above what the car is worth. Arbitration is fine in some circumstances but the mere fact that PCNA is advocating this should set of an alarm indicating that they think this option will cost them the least.

We had a DFI engine problem with a 2007 A4 and got No Joy from Audi (and this was just a CEL that kept coming on; you'd never know there was a problem but the CEL belied something bigger). It got so absurd that at one point Audi of North America accused us of putting "bad gas" in the car - and then they suggested arbitration. I think this was the point where decided to use the California Lemon Law to file a claim.

The point is, once you file you are going to force the manufacturer to specifically respond and they are not going to be able to respond with a bunch of technical crap. (They either identified the problem and fixed or they didn't and if they didn't, why not?) At ay rate, with legal recourse, you are no longer relying on the goodwill of someone at PCNA to answer your call or move the process along - they answer the complaint or risk summary judgement. In most case these things are settled before trial.
Typically if you loose in arbitration you can take it to court but the manufacturer can not. If you choose court and loose you are out of luck. If you win, the manufacturer can appeal. Appeal courts are not fun to deal with. Did you win one in court and get a big pain and suffering award?

ChuckJ
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  #113  
Old 04-17-2014, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by HotHonda View Post
If & when your car takes a dump, re-read the GT3 Rennlist threads + this post & see how you feel.

BTW, I had a situation where I had to choose arbitration or lawsuit. I'm thinking why arbitrate, I did nothing wrong.

The judge proved me right.
HotHonda, I see your point of not liking PCNA stance on this issue. What I don't understand is one not wanting one of the top cars a consumer can purchased based solely on the situation of another car owner. The only ones you know the complete facts of this situation is Mr. Murray, PCNA, and probably the dealer used. Now its only money if you don't want your car anymore but since I haven't seen you complaining about your car, I think it's rather silly to want to get rid of it because of this situation. Two each his own though. I, like SMATL has mentioned, enjoy every time I go to turn it on. If it doesn't turn on Ill get it fixed. If they can't fix it, Ill use the steps in place to get it remedied. VW didn't want to take back my old jetta initially either. I got an arbitration date, went, and after the judgement they took the car back. It was a lease so the judgement was for me to just turn the car in not having to pay the remaining 15 months on the lease. I wasn't given any past money back, I was just relieved of the remaining payments. I actually bought another VW when I turned it in. All manufactures are going to stick behind their product even if its a lemon. I understood that, sought out the best recourse for me, and was done with it. It sucks when we are the one that gets the lemon but it happens. I hope Mr. Murray get this situation resolved to his satisfaction, but it doesn't affect my view of Porsche one bit. My buddy bought another Ferrari after fighting with them. Why? Because it's a great car. So is a Porsche. Enjoy, whatever car it may be. Good luck.
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  #114  
Old 04-17-2014, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by See U n Rear View View Post
I only know your side, and I have seen Porsche step of to the plate many times and more so than many manufacturers put together, not to mention they have less problems per 100 vehicles than any other manufacturer.
What about all the IMS/RMS failures, and how difficult it is for those owners to get a favorable resolution? And I always question those highly-subjective "initial quality" reports; the first 90 days of ownership are not always a true indicator of reliability, particularly given that a new 911 owner might not put the same kind of mileage on their car in the first 90 days as say, a new Camry owner. Less time in the car and more time spent swooning over it as it sits in the garage means that you probably won't have too many issues with it during that timeframe.

Anyhoo, this story just hit Jalopnik, and I fully support you Nick. PCNA's behavior is ridiculous for such a high-end company that wouldn't be in a position to act this greedy if it wasn't for its die-hard customer fan base, that routinely shells out thousands more for this badge than any other brand on Earth. I hope things go better for you once the media coverage picks up steam.
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  #115  
Old 04-17-2014, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by KGX View Post
What about all the IMS/RMS failures, and how difficult it is for those owners to get a favorable resolution? And I always question those highly-subjective "initial quality" reports; the first 90 days of ownership are not always a true indicator of reliability, particularly given that a new 911 owner might not put the same kind of mileage on their car in the first 90 days as say, a new Camry owner. Less time in the car and more time spent swooning over it as it sits in the garage means that you probably won't have too many issues with it during that timeframe.

Anyhoo, this story just hit Jalopnik, and I fully support you Nick. PCNA's behavior is ridiculous for such a high-end company that wouldn't be in a position to act this greedy if it wasn't for its die-hard customer fan base, that routinely shells out thousands more for this badge than any other brand on Earth. I hope things go better for you once the media coverage picks up steam.
Awesome. I was one of those who submitted it to Jalopnik two days ago!

http://jalopnik.com/the-saga-of-the-...ust-1564141012
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  #116  
Old 04-17-2014, 09:49 AM
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Good news!

I have been contacted by PCNA to settle this. This whole mess will end today hopefully. Good that they are doing the right thing. Good for them.
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  #117  
Old 04-17-2014, 09:50 AM
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Good luck

Quote:
Originally Posted by nmurray22 View Post
Actually the media are calling me. I have offers from 2 morning TV shows NY and Boston and 4 radio stations. Including one in my home town of Auckland NZ.

Not sure I am up for that just yet. I need to get some sleep first!
I've watched all your videos. I feel your pain. Hope all gets resolved in a timely fashion. As a car fan, I empathize with you. Good luck and I think everyone in the forum stands behind you.

Cheers
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  #118  
Old 04-17-2014, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by nmurray22 View Post
Good news!

I have been contacted by PCNA to settle this. This whole mess will end today hopefully. Good that they are doing the right thing. Good for them.
Glad they got a "little" help to do the right thing
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  #119  
Old 04-17-2014, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by nmurray22 View Post
Good news!

I have been contacted by PCNA to settle this. This whole mess will end today hopefully. Good that they are doing the right thing. Good for them.
Great news Nick!!! I hope you get exactly what you were looking for.

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  #120  
Old 04-17-2014, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckJ View Post
Typically if you loose in arbitration you can take it to court but the manufacturer can not. If you choose court and loose you are out of luck. If you win, the manufacturer can appeal. Appeal courts are not fun to deal with. Did you win one in court and get a big pain and suffering award?

ChuckJ

ChuckJ is correct, but the real question is if you take it to court following arbitration, what is the standard of review. If it is de novo or "new", great. The court will look at it as if the arbitration did not happen (well, it will carry some weight). But, if we assume that you are in court because you lost the arbitration, and if the standard of review is high, I might take my chance with a court. Often, the standard of review from arbitration is quite high.


I would be more concerned initially with how the arbitrator is picked. With a judge you will get someone who is "unbiased." With an arbitrator, that may not always be the case. Financial and investing contracts specify the arbitration route and often what arbitration group and rules - trust me when I say that they had a team of lawyers look for arbitrators and rules that are "friendly".
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Old 04-17-2014, 09:55 AM
 
 
 
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