This is not going to be a popular discussion topic. I would like to hear others' views on this subject.

Personally, I think Porsche is falling behind in terms of performance and value of the car. Here is a list of observations:

1) Porsche is charging us a premium but it is not distancing itself from the competitors like before
2) Too many models and you don't feel special anymore. There are 11 models of 911.
3) why are they selling the base model( base, S, GTS, etc)?
4) I know Porsche is a great track car but most of us use it for DD. Street performance is not living up to its competitors.
- a 911 C2 runs the 1/4 at 12.5 to 12.8 secs. It can't even keep up with the new BMW M3 ( 1/4 mile at 12.2 to 12.3). When you are at a traffic light beside a M3, all we can say is 'I drive a Porsche but I won't race u because I know I will lose'
- a 911 CS runs the 1/4 mile at 12.0 to 12.2 secs. M5, Vette Z06, E63, RS7, R8 are all running at mid to high 11s. The 400 bhp just does not cut it anymore. And they want to charge an extra $18K for the 30 BHP Powerkit ( for 430bhp)
- The Panamera Turbo is the king of performance sedan 6 years ago. When it was first introduced, it sat a new standard for performance sedan. 500 bhp and AWD basically left all its competitors in the dust. It was worth every penny for that ultra performance sedan. Fast forward 6 years, all the Panamera Turbo competitors are catching up and in many areas, eating the Panamera Turbo alive in performance. Alright, Panamera Turbo is probably still better on the track. Again, all the competitors, M5, AMG, RS7 are all better in acceleration. In fact, the Panny Turbo S has added 20 more bhp just to keep up with competitors this year.

Here are my suggestions to Porsche, get rid of the base model:

- who wants to drive a base Boxster or Cayman? If it is the price, then don't drive a Porsche. The Boxster and Cayman should only come in GTS form.
- 911 should all equipped with the GT3 engine, so we don't need to look scare at the light. ( yes, not everyone can get a Turbo and the Turbo look does not work for me as a DD)
- get rid of the Panny base and S. They are totally gutless. ( Yes, I have the Panny S). Panny GTS or higher only

If we look at 10 years ago, 911 has always been ultra high performance in all aspect of the car. The competitors could not come close to it. Nowadays, there are too many competitions.

Personally, I have a hard time justifying the price for Porsche's performance (comparing to all the high performance sedan and sport car). Ironically, I still want to drive a Porcshe and I do drive a Porsche. Go figure.

 

If your goal is stoplight drag racing, then maybe you shouldn't be trolling a Porsche forum.

 

Zhecks, Porsche has never been about straight on speed. It's about driver engagement.

I agree that there are a lot of compelling choices out there - but if you pick up any comparison article, from any country, there's always a clear winner - Porsche.

As to the base models, what you're creating is an opportunity for people to experience 90 percent of the handling and braking of some of the more powerful models.

As to the Panamera - yeah, it's not for me. My daily driver is a Cayenne S and my weekend toy is a 9912S, but it all started for me in 2005 with a base 987 Boxster which I think had 255 hp, with no sport exhaust - and was an awesome car.

As to the Boxster, Cayman and base 911s - all you have to do is drive them against their competitors. There is no substitute my friend.

 

Get a Hellcat and head for the drag strip. You'll be a hero. But roll up your windows, you don't want to muss your mullet.

 

Do you own a 991? Maybe you should trade it for a M3 or Corvette.

ChuckJ

 

You can borrow my Hemi Cuda and Journey T-shirt if you want to go light to light racing

 

+1
I understand what you are trying to say. It's not about drag racing at street lights, it's about maintaining a time built well deserved reputation.

 

Good points, all brought up in the past many times before, but the bottom line is always king. As long as they are able to maintain the sales and profits with higher margins than any of their competitors (and it's not even close from what I've read) Porsche doesn't need to compete directly based on numbers. That said, I'm looking forward to what is hopefully going to be some strong competition for the 911 in the form of the new NSX, AMG GT, and entry model McLaren. Competition from the GTR is what led to the 997.2TT and 991TT being what they are.

 

I disagree 100%, the turbo will outperform just about anything out there and it is priced well below super car competition. The reality is you can only drive so fast on the street and the 991 or 991 S will get you arrested quickly. These cars are meant to be DDs not race cars. You have many variants because that is now they make money. Want a race car? Get a GT3 or RS. Want to drive a beautiful, high performing sports car get a 991. Want to drag a car at stop lights get a GTR.

 

Nothing more needs to be said, others before me have hit the nail on the head.

 

My $0.02....

As others have already said, straight-line comparisons aren't what P-cars are all about. None of them. What I keep in mind every time one of my friends stops over with a new M3, M4, Mclaren or whatever, is how well the 991 chassis in most forms performs against all competitors in on-and-off track comparisons. Just look at the recent M4 vs 991 (C2 base) in I think it was R&T. Sure, the 991 was beat, but by a couple of points against a fully-loaded M4 and by the way the comments throughout the article and especially the conclusion was that they only gave the nod to the BMW because of price.

After driving a large number of sports and high-performance sedan cars over the years, I still ended-up in a 911 because of much much more than the ability to launch faster than just about anyone on the street. And by the way, I choose not to launch from the stoplight every time a hopped-up WRX, GTR, Vette, Camaro, Charger, Honda, M3 pulls up alongside mainly because I don't know them and i don't trust they know what they are doing -- I don't want an accident or worse on my conscience!

 

What porsche has done for the turbo is what the OP is trying to say they should do for the whole line I think.

I agree 100% with the OP. But I don't know why people are being stupid with the comments. Also I don't know why people have a 911 that isn't a turbo,GT3, etc as a weekend toy. This is a every day sports car and that is what they tout from its inception. Why are you people using it as a weekend toy unless it's a GT3, GT2, or turbo?

But as stated the turbo from a performance point of view kills everything over 200k-500k pretty much. What the OP is saying is that the 911 should do the same from 100-200k I think. And I agree that it should do that. The dollar to value for these cars is absurd. High dollar and not a justifiable value. But bottom line is King. As long as everyone pays for it (me included) they will keep doing it.

I like porsche because of the DD practicality and use it as its intended. The rest of the people who use it as a weekend toy are smoking something. You missed the point of the car and are over paying for nothing. Your weekend toy if its a porsche should be a turbo, GT3 RS, or CGT if your lucky.

 

Comparing magazine quarter mile times is nonsense. Too many variables ranging from temperature to altitude to $ in brand adverts in the road test issue.

When the C2s was first introduced the mags had in the high 11s. Timing slips as low as 11.7 have been posted here. For two years running the 991 won actual same day comparison tests when the cars were in the hands of the same driver.

Are there faster cars than 119s? Of course. So what? That has nothing to do with what Porsche is. Never was, never will be.

 

I can always tell when folks have bought the wrong kind of car and for the wrong reasons.. I've lost the desire anymore to describe the distinctions on a carrea vs other cars...

So just go buy a corvette or whatever and be happy...

Best comparison I can think of is someone comparing a Monet to a Thomas Kincaid painting... Describing the Monet as kinda blurry and shouldn't be..

 

I think I get most of what the OP is saying; I'm 45 and growing up seeing a 911 was special and rare compared to the boats of the 70s and 80s.
In this day and age, the boats are not there so much anymore (except replaced by SUVs), so the comparative landscape has changed.
Back then, when our minds were being formed, regular car speedos went to 85 and had the Cd of a refrigerator.
Today most every car is aerodynamic and can safely cruise over 85mph.

So everyone caught up and the difference is not as apparent.
Here in NYC most everyone has a >$50k car and at that pricepoint you can get a lot of quality these days, the delta is not as apparent and also measured with a glitzometer.

On top of which the Porsches per capita has exponentially increased. We live in a much more brand aware, consumer based society, as opposed to interest based.
I would love to give fellow owners the special wave, but I don't "know" these people; owning something today is different than having an interest in what it was developed for. P

How many housewives or other "unqualified" owners are driving Porsches today? In the 80s we mocked the yuppies and dentists, today we cannot categorize so much. As the hotel thread shows, it's literally everyone and their mother in 918s no less!

In my youth I lamented that the finer things in life were only for the rich; I thought that people should "qualify" to buy a sports car based on interest and driving talent, as opposed to its accessibility. An enthusiast rating that is done after the eye exam at the DMV.

Seems the point is more based on our society and it's relevance to what "we" feel Porsches are, what they were, and how they should be driven.

They have knit and cast a wide net and when you troll there's collateral . . .
To the OPs point should there be entry level grades, or should the used market have done it?

Should there be such a thing as the Cayenne or Panamera, or should Audi have taken care of that?

I miss the sports/GT orientation, imagine if they had their 80s/90s lineup today; with 944s, 928s and a limited run of a modern interpretation of the 356 today?