Go back and read the entire thread:

- The OP was asking about a "991 Carerra 4S Cab or a relatively late model 997 Turbo S Cab". Already there's a lot of ambiguity since exact options, year, etc. are not specified.

- Someone said, "991, not as fast as the 997TT but IMO more fun to drive at legal speed"

- That's where I asked the question, "Does anybody have actual lap times of a 997TTS vs 991 C2S? The 991 is actually faster than the 997TT, at least at the famed Ring. Don't underestimate what a modern chassis and other tech can do."

- Lap times for Cabs are typically not done, so I generalize to a "S" and a "Turbo" (which have more lap time data). I never said a 991 C4S Cab was faster than a 997.2 TTS Cab. If I did somewhere, then I shouldn't have.

- Then you see my hammer my point again: "Depends on what you are after. If 0-60 and 1/4 mile is your priority, then yes, more HP the better. I just hate it when people think the "Turbo" or "GT3" badge makes the car the pinnacle. Yes, the pinnacle during its generation. But almost always the newer generation chassis, transmission, brakes, etc. are way way better. Porsche spent a ton of money developing the new 991. You think it's not better than a 997?"

Then for some reason it seem to really bother you that a 991 C2S could be faster than a 997 TT.

Let's agree on these points:

1. "faster" means different things to different people (heck a SUV might be faster than a Ferrari in the snow!)

2. a lower HP car can be much faster than a higher HP car for a number of reasons (chassis, weight, braking, tranny, etc.)

3. newer generation chassis and technology are generally big improvements over previous generation chassis and technology

4. yes, on average, on a typical track, the C7 Z06 is faster than cars costing 3x as much

So, again, to the OP, drive both cars, pick the one you like. But recognize that a regular old "S" can be just as fast as a "Turbo" despite being down on power due to various improvements in PDK, chassis, tires, etc. Don't just assume Turbo > S.

 

Do you really believe that a 991 C2S is faster than a 997 TT? Its 80 - 100 hp less with out the boost and 4wd. If you look at just 1 ring time , driver and conditions play a big role. Like i said previously I love my 991 4S but my previous 997TT I felt was a much faster car in real life driving. Thats from experience of owning both and 4 previous TT's.
I am not complaining about the 991 at all but the GT3 and the TT/TTS are the pinnacles of Porsche engineering (excluding the 918 as it is not for the masses).

 

I can believe that a 991 C2S is faster than a 997 TT despite being down 100hp. Why? Better chassis, better brakes, better transmission, better suspension, better tires, etc. Why is it so hard for people to think that a newer car with less HP can be faster, or very close.

http://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/p..._facelift.html

If we are looking at available dry track lap times, it's 5 vs 4. Now, granted, I have no idea what the conditions, options, driver, etc. are. Maybe all those C2S had crazy options and the Turbos were on crappy tires. Who knows. But the evidence would indicate that the 991 C2S is pretty damn fast and is competitive with the 997 Turbo.

Look, a 2016 Honda Civic R is faster than a 993 Turbo. Does that make the Civic R a better car? Probably not. But it's a faster car. No shame about it. Better technology, despite the 993 Turbo being the "pinnacle" of Porsche engineering (30 years ago!).

 

Exactly Jersey Shore, the 997TT is without a doubt faster than a 991 C4S in every conceivable objective measure of speed. Even the link posted by oneapex says so! If you scroll down the information shows (i) Lap Times (ii) Technical data (iii) Specs - where the 997TT owns the 991 C2S (iv) Summary and (v) Verdict which reads "Porsche 911 Turbo (997 facelift) is noticeably faster."

Oneapex continues to point to select track lap times, disregarding the reality that certain track configurations may benefit the slower car at the expense of the faster car! But frankly, I gave up when he wrote "faster" means different things to different people (heck a SUV might be faster than a Ferrari in the snow!). If we are going to redefine what faster means to suit yourself then a tractor is faster than a 991TTS in the mud and a Zamboni is faster than a 918...wait for it...ON ICE!!

Jersey Shore you get it, there is no substitute for real ownership experience! We acknowledge and appreciate the various technological improvements in the 991 platform over the 997 platform, no one denies that, heck I'm on record saying (in my TPC module review thread) that I invested in the TPC module partly in an attempt to achieve a compliant ride, similar to the 991 platform, in my 997.2TTS. We have tremendous respect for the 991 (in your case you outright love your 991 C4S, its an amazing Porsche) but that doesn't make it faster than a 997TT! BTW the black wheels on guards red looks great!

 

Are you seriously saying that there is only one definition of "faster"?

Here's is all the summary you need:



If you choose to believe fastlaps then the 991 C2S is faster on track then the 997 Turbo. But it is slower in straight line performance. Why is this so hard to believe?

Frankly, I am amazed that someone who builds himself as such a track guy can't distinguished between straight line performance vs overall track performance. If you choose to not believe fastlaps or think the selected tracks are "unfair" to the 997 Turbo, fine. I can accept that. Fastlaps is not authoritative and maybe those tracks favor the 991 C2S too much, making it "unfair". But if you do accept fastlaps, then you must recognize that there is 2 dimensions of "fast", straightline and track. And if you accept fastlaps then it is very clear that the 991 C2S has the track performance edge.

Why is it so hard to say,

- The 997 Turbo is much, much faster in straight line performance than the 991 C2S
- The 991 C2S, on typical tracks, has a slight edge over the 997 Turbo

If you have data to say otherwise, I am happy to change my position.

This reminds me of the P1 vs 918 debate. The P1 guys were crying that the 918 was faster around various tracks as reported by various magazines. They just couldn't accept it. Kept making excuses. Tracks favored 918, P1 didn't have right tires, etc. Gets old.

 

What does all this have to do with anything. There is no winning here. Owning both cars is where the real reality of what does it really feel to drive both of these great cars. Are you trying to convince yourself of your purchase. The op is trying to make a call on ownership and this is where previous ownership experience really matters.

They are both great cars but there is no denying the kick the turbo cars as Porsches premium give in real performance. We are losing sight of what the original thread is about.

No one is denying progress by Porsche and that each iteration gets a little better. I'm not stuck in the past. I've owned 12 of these cars and don't cry about air vs water cooled or any other nonsense. Let's get back on topic.

 

Like I said, I have no dog in this fight. I don't have a 997 or a 991. I sold the 991 last year because it wasn't fast enough in a straight line. It's great that the OP is getting some feedback from current/previous 997 owners. I just want the OP to also know that great improvements in chassis, PDK, etc. have been made in the 991 over the 997. Too many fanboys (not saying you are one, but fanboys in general) just see the GT3 or Turbo badge and automatically assume it's faster/better/etc. without factoring in the inevitability of time/progress. I'm trying to present a balance view that a modern 991 C2S (and thus to some extent the C4S Cab variant) is no joke even when compared to previous generation GT3s and Turbos. I mean look at the review of the 991 C2S vs a 997.1 GT3 by EVO a while back to see what I mean by how much an improvement the 991 is. Hopefully the OP has a balance view and will pick the right car for him/her.

 

Well, I test drove a C4S 991 cab. I found it a titch heavy in the front. Nothing objectionable - but definitely noticeable - like 10-20% vs what I remember from my 2004. Maybe I'm just imagining it - don't know.

That being said, I like the wider *** end on the C4S vs the C2S.

Suffice it to say, I think the ultimate MIGHT be the GTS 2WD. Don't know.

I went to three different dealers to scope things out, look at different color combos and all three told me the 991.2 will ALL be turbo's now with the C4S going up 10-20 in HP.

I commented to each one that the Porsche faithful will be rioting in the streets. Reminds me of the air cooled flap in the 90's.

Mike

 

Guys - I think I'm down to the final decision: c2s vs c4s 991's? Both cabriolet's.

I live in Florida.

Would really appreciate some advise!

I HAVE driven both...I found the C4S stuck to the road like glue, but felt a tiny tiny bit heavy in the front. I found the C2S ever so slightly lighter in the front, but the *** end came out more easily.

I'm torn!

Mike

 

First off, Sarasota is a great place. I'd go with the C4S for resale in the future + the "wider" ***.

 

Thanks!

 

Agree!!

 

Disagree! Buy the car you want, for you to enjoy now. Don't buy something based simply on anticipated resale. By the time you sell it, the price difference will be negligible.

 

i wonder why TTSs and most "super cars" are all wheel drive?

 

Interesting, curious what people say.
Maybe, all that power is more efficient transferred to 4 wheels?