I see a small problem here. Many many people recognize and admire the porsche 911. People who don't know how many cylinders, where the engine is, if its all wheel drive etc etc. love the 911. Its the silhouette and the heritage that they know and love. To all those people the most expensive 911 has always been the turbo. Is yours a turbo? I get that all the time. From now on all new owners will be answering yes. I thing they should change the name of the the turbo. To what I have no idea. In all candor, my personal observations as a 911 driver in the northeast has been that with one or two exceptions, the 911 turbo owners I see like to cruise, not shred. There needs to be a model designation that clarifies they bought the most expensive version. Perhaps the badge should read tri turbo hybid? Porsche will think of something, they are experts at getting us to part with greenbacks.

DRP

 

+1 not a turbo fan either. Driven them on track including a 997.2 Turbo S. Its a different car with the power delivery (hitting the gas going into corners to pull you through.)

I saw a video review of the new turbo carrera from the Frankfurt show and the journalist was spot on in his assessments of the pros and cons of turbos. You can engineer around the clear loss of engine exhaust sound, volume and character that accompanies turbo charging but... you cannot do anything about the flat torque curve of a turbo engine. From the get go through to near redline, a turbo engine produces the exact - exact same amount of shove. There is no building to a crescendo. The 991 N/A engines need to be wound out to really produce, these turbo versions can probably be short shifted and still generate the acceleration numbers. If anyone has ever driven a 6 cylinder M3 vs. a 335i you'll see what I'm talking about. The 335 engine has more torque and its a flat curve, the M engine is a tad asthmatic at low revs then sings on the high end. This is the type of character that 911 buyers love. The new turbo engines are going to be more attractive to the corvette guy, who is used to tire smoking torque in multiple gears - not my cup of tea... Jury is out on the new carrera engine. As a positive, Porsche has done a far better job than anyone else incorporating new tech without loosing too much soul. We'll see.

DRP

 

I absolutely agree with your points. However, looking at the Macan, the Macan S and the Macan Turbo both have turbocharged engines. If Porsche were to implement a change in nomenclature to differentiate the two, they probably would have started the trend with the Macan.

I also get the question, "Is this a Turbo?" But the answer you give depends on the person asking, and what you intend to get across. I'd default to, "No, it isn't," but I don't think I'd honestly bother explaining to a regular non-enthusiast that my car also has a turbocharged engine, bla bla bla.

 

To be honest, the Carrera name should be retired, and replaced with something new.

 

Drove both, the NA M3 and 335i. Nothing exciting about driving an underpowered M3... Don't understand why everyone is so excited to 'wait' for the engines to 'sing'. There's also nothing exciting about underpowered Porsche NA engines in base and S models. I'm surprised it took them that long. For how much longer did Porsche think it could charge 6 figures for a sports car that only produces 300TQ? Without putting too much thought into it, I think that the base C2 was the most expensive sports car with the least amount of power. Yeah, I know how great Motor Trend makes even the base C2 look, but we do not drive at 6K rpms on the streets. I thought the base and S models were always underpowered no matter how great track stars made them look.

However, when I had my C2S it always had the best engine lol... that's what we tell ourselves when we have one although we all know better. On the streets we drive TQ. Oh, but wait, P car is a t rack car and if you wanted a road car then you should have gotten... yeah yeah lol

Porsche just finally got on the wagon after MB and Jag started a fire up its a$$.

What was weird is that I had to keep reminding myself how great the C2S was when I had it... after I sold it I finally realized that it was all about driving a rear engine car and how it made me feel and nothing more... I made up the excitement in my head, because the car really didn't give me any. Hopefully these changes will transform the base and S models for the better.

Turbo is different story and I'd rock one any day, even the 996.

Oh, and I'm still in a P car, but in a CTT... wife, kids and dogs...

 

I see your points and I agree that cars with relatively low torque such as the base and even S 911s don't scare/excite you with raw acceleration. I used to go well into triple digits all the time on the highway with my BMWs. Very little excitement involved which is a compliment to the car. The road and wind noise were low, the suspension worked beautifully, the revs weren't that high and you could literally steer with a finger. Now in the 991 - 120 is scary and in the 997 even more so. Road noise and vibration. Engine revs. You got to keep both hands on the wheel. This is exciting to me. My old man has had corvettes for the last 30 years. His C7 is fast and sharper than ever, but its all about the power - nothing else. The 911 just isn't that car. It has low torque, because it has a small 6 cyl. engine, that is compact and light. I love the fact that after tracking 911s and learning how to drive them (heal-toe etc..) I can get so much more performance from my 911. Big engine, big torque usually = no finesse in the handling. It's like delicious food is basically all unhealthy. Cars like Ferraris, McLarens and GT3s that have massive power and still retain finesse are rare exceptions.

I'm sure the new turbo 911s will be good. But I assure you the move to turbos was for emission and fuel efficiency reasons - not to keep up with competitors - otherwise they would have slapped them on the existing 3.4/3.8 engines instead of downsizing them to 3.0.

DRP

 

Buddy... if you are looking for road noise, vibration, and revs you need a crotch rocket. Seriously, try one.

As for a 6 figure sports car, I would expect more from it than just scaring me at 120. I expect power. Good power does not have to feel like a Chevy a big block, check out Jag F Type R and MB GTS.

As to your comment about sticking turbos on existing size engines, well, that's what a Turbo model is - 3.8TT.

So, using force induction on smaller displacement engines for base and S is not simply caving to emission powers, but a late step in a direction that has already bee paved by other sports car manufacturers.

And heck... maybe I'll consider a 991 this time around.

 

+1 All agreed. I rode bikes for 12 years, and just traded my last bike in 2013. I miss it everyday.

As for the timing on Porsche's move to turbos its like qualifying in F1 - you want to be the last car on track. Ferrari turboed its lineup and now porsche. Only Lambo is left if you want NA. BTW, can anyone comment on the Panamera GTS engine? I heard they weren't going turbo in that one model?

DRP

 

I came from a Viper ACR to a Zo6 to a GTR lol To a GTS. And while the others were fast. I always had to have the fast car. I realized its about the driving exp. as well. The refinement and the looks of the Porsche, etc! So perfect really~!

 

To each his own. You crave power; others don't. The beauty of the Carrera/Carrera S was that the car is a champ on the track, and quite the performer on the street. You need to work the car in order to extract the performance from it. You point out the "track numbers" comment and dismiss it, but it's hard to dismiss a fact as an opinion. The 911 Carrera is not a car you buy to excite you from stoplight to stoplight.

Now, is that the popular opinion among drivers? Probably not. That's why most drivers (not including myself and others on this board) aren't big fans of FI cars. I prefer the progressive, long wind up past 7,000RPM with the NA 3.8.

Having driven F-Type Rs, M4s, M6s, MB AMGs, etc., I just never get the same feeling that I do from my 911. For you, it may have well been your mind "convincing you" of the perfection of the 911. But you need to realize that plenty of others don't feel the same way. It isn't hard to understand.

 

I never dismissed a fact as an opinion, I merely stated that the track facts do little for us on the street. And again, my case in point, if you have to go to the track to get excited about your 6 figure sports car... maybe that sports car is missing something...?

Anyway, beating a dead horse at this point. However, reading through some of the posts in this thread makes it sound that some are under the impression that Porsche is going to get this FI thing wrong and somehow the 991 will be transformed for the worse. I actually think that Porsche knows a thing or two about FI and the final outcome is going to be an engine that may behave more like what is currently in the 991, with just more power. I think there will be a proper differentiation made between the 3.0TT and 3.8TT behavior.

Just reading some recent posts in this forum proves that people are looking to add more power to their base and S models... it's just that no one will come outright and say that the current engines are under powered. I know it's hard... especially if you're driving one.

Lastly, did anyone notice that current 3.0TT in Panamera makes 420HP? Just imagine the tuning potential on these engines... the new 3.0TT 991 with a tune may not be that far off from the stock Turbo!

 

Just my two pennies here.

If anyone has driven a modern turbo'd car, especially one using one of the new twin scroll design compressor side designs, will probably have an appreciation for how flexible the design is. Engineers with the aid of software can tweak the design to deliver any engine character within reason they want the car to have.

Want something that feels like a steady, flat, V8 shove - it's possible. Want something that feels like a traditional progressive wind it out N/A torque curve, they can do it. Want something that feels like an 'old' turbo where there is a stale build of power and then a massive hit when the turbos hit full spool. Definitely no problems there.

Will it feel exactly like its N/A counterpart, no. Engineers still cannot defy physics - not without the aid of a battery / electronic motor to perform torque fill but is it so foreign feeling that someone who is not a total die-hard N/A fan would mind, no.


For example my business partner recently had to give up coupes for a true SUV. He has 3 kids now. He wanted the Cayenne, but it didn't have a 3rd row so he went for the new Explorer Sport (3.5 V6 TT).

It was quite capable on its own stock. One of the first things we did after break-in was play with some of the tuning maps and set it to a 91 and 93 tune. Suddenly we had nearly +100ft/lbs more torque and +35 HP at peak and 70/20 across where the former dips in the power band were with nearly imperceptible lag and plenty of grunt in all the places you'd want it on the street and even in the highway passing tests.

 

If I want a 911 with Turbos, I'll buy a TurboS. Not this crap. It's not just about feel...it's about sound. Porsche I think you just lost me...

I've gotta go rethink this whole thing. lol

 

Personally, I agree with you. In fact, so much so that I traded my 2014 for a new 2016 which should be delivered around the third week of November. I figured that I would have a new NA to drive for another couple of years at least until they sort out this TT design. I am pretty sure this will be my last new 911, I intend to keep the 2016 as long as I can.

 

I agree that sound is a very important part of the package ... That is why I want to drive one first to see how it does sound especially with the sport exhaust. Porsche has commented how important they feel sound is and I'd be surprised if 991.2 didn't sound great.

I have a love hate relationship with my 991S with PSE with much more love then hate.

90% of the time I love the sound of my car with its cool gurgles but there sometimes comes a time when I feel the engine has a tinny sound to it, I'm not sure if I'm describing it right but it gets kind of annoying and I shut the PSE off.