Hi all,

Been helping a friend buy a car: she has found 2 out of the area that would fit the bill. I would like some advice. Her criteria: 7MT, great handling as a DD, good residual, low ownership costs. She is coming off a 2008 BMW M3. Please put in your $.02! Both cars are spotless. She has negotiated the pricing down as well.

Car one: 2013 991 base, 18k miles, 7MT, CPO for 3 years, options are the typical items (audio, NAV, vented seats, sport steering wheel, sports exhaust, 20" wheels, but no PASM). Color is blue on grey. $62,500+ship

Car two: 2012 991S; 24k miles, 7MT, CPO for 2 years, same specs as above, but has PASM (it being an S model), and full leather. Color is white on dark brown. $65,500+ship

Being that both of these are enthusiast daily drivers, not likely to see track time; which is the better car, and which is likely to perform better in terms of long term cost of ownership?

She drove a 997.2 as well, thought the 991 platform was more suited to daily driving.

 

"Which is the better car" seems pretty straightforward to me; the 991 S is nearly the strictly superior car in this case. Its only drawback is a trivial amount of miles - 6k miles isn't a lot of wear. The only argument against is if she strongly prefers the other color.

 

Sorry, meant from the perspective of a DD, and also cost of ownership/depreciation, that sort of thing. Sticker on Car #1 was $97k, Car #2 $111k.

From what I gather, the 911s is the better performing car, of course. Downsides; a year older, has more miles, one year less warranty, and is $3,000 more. I know it's a subjective choice, but if you had a vote?

 

"A year older" is actually an advantage from a buyer's perspective. If everything else is the same - same 991 platform, close to the same mileage - letting someone else take the extra year's depreciation is a good thing. It's not like cars are fresh fruit with an expiration date, a 2012 is just as functional as a 2013.

6k miles is a pretty small percentage of the car's reliable life. A year's less warranty is hard to value, but I wouldn't put it at more than $1500, tops. CPO costs $3k and adds 2 years warranty, right? So Porsche, playing the numbers game, expects to come out ahead, and expects repairs to be less than that. So one way to look at it is that the 911 S is $4000-$4500 more expensive.

Me, I'd take the 911 S. The difference between the two is pretty substantial. Your friend may not care as much, it's very subjective. My wife, for example, would probably be just as happy with a base 911 as an S, because she's more into the cars for their looks, size, and handling than raw power.

 

S....

 

More suited than the 997.2, but still inferior to something like a BMW 5-series or even an M3 for daily driving.


I had a Cayman GTS, and my attempts to make that my daily driver really turned me off the car, and I sold it. It would have been fine as an extra car for occasional fun driving, but that's it.


I then got a 991 Carrera S, but not as my daily driver - I learned my lesson. I would not want it as a daily driver - it's just too compromised in terms of comfort, visibility, noise, electronics, etc. to be a good commute and errand car. Yes, you can use it as a daily driver, and it's somewhat better than the Cayman for that (other than the trunk), but it's not ideal, it makes daily driving more tiring, and it's a waste of the car and feels like a shame to subject it to the wear and tear of it for no good reason (its superior handling is irrelevant for this type of driving.) Also, I don't feel comfortable parking it in many places.


Anyway, I would pick the S over the base. I wouldn't make either one a daily driver - would keep a different car for that.

 

If you don't get the S, you will wish you did!

 

I can't agree. This is very much a Your Mileage May Vary issue. Where you see the comfort as "compromised," some see sedans as "too soft." (I'm personally fine with either). Visibility is great unless you're talking about a Cabriolet with the top up, which is not the case here. For some, a very quiet cabin is a serious fault - you'll see some owners insist that the noisemaker Sports Exhaust is a "must have" in a 911.

The "compromised electronics" comment seems very odd, and not a YMMV issue. Porsche isn't particularly backwards in this regard. The main drawback is that the navigation is Not Good compared to an aftermarket Garmin. I could go on for a while about that, but it'd be a significant tangent.

My wife's daily driver is a Cayman S. She loves it. I've enjoyed it a great deal when using it for errands as well. Enough so, actually, that I'm selling my Panamera S e Hybrid tomorrow to get into a Carrera 4S. Because every time I drove my wife's Cayman, I was reminded how much more I enjoyed driving a proper sports coupe as a daily driver. I'm a little concerned that I'm going to need the Panamera's cargo capacity again, but the relative stiffness of the suspension is not remotely a concern.

My experience is that there are plenty of opportunities in daily driving to have fun, even if you're stuck on surface streets. The main issue is being behind other cars, and whether that's a constant depends on your location.

The parking issue is location dependent as well. I've had it come up once in the last 20 years. I had a jury duty summons to a poverty ridden section of town, rather than downtown like the prior time, and parking either Porsche there felt very risky. But then again, an M-series BMW would have had the same issue.

Now, it's true that Raidersfan's friend may feel exactly the way you do. But she might not. It's only something she can know.

 

I just bought my 2013 991 C2 7MT base coming from a 2008 e92 M3 6MT and I love it. My car was the same price as your C2 option with just a few more miles. Compared to the M3 this car is phenomenal. And I daily drive mine. I was surprised to notice that the 911 is quicker than my old M3. It's not by a lot and I knew on paper it's quicker given the power to weight but I didn't expect to notice the straight line difference.

I'm very happy with my decision. I was originally shopping for a Cayman S but this car came up at the right price and I decided to go the 911 route for a few years. This is my first porsche so I tried justifying the leap to a 911 over a Cayman by remembering that the 3.4 is also used in the Cayman S and GTS. That's probably insignificant but something I considered.

In 3 years I'll likely look at either a used Cayman GTS or a 991 C2S or GTS. But that's just because I change cars frequently. The 991 C2 is more than enough to keep forever and it's been a phenomenal daily. I've had it for almost 2 months and I've almost racked up 2k miles because I love driving it so much.

If you or your friend want to know more about my switch and experience since she's making the same change, feel free to private message me. I'll send you my email or phone number and we can talk.

 

I have a 2013 S vert and a 08 M3 coupe and they are pretty equal as far as comfort IMO.

 

She should try both and make her decision. My gut feel will be that she will want the S if it's a MT. My base is just fine with PDK and SC. I'm surprised she doesn't like the 991.2 for DD. There must be something more to that.

ChuckJ

 

I've got only One advice : She must drive both cars back to back on her preferred roads and follow her heart and driving sensations.

Personally, I'll take the 991 S without hesitation.

 

I was in a similar situation not too long ago. I got the S, there's a difference and it's not insignificant.

 

I agree that the S is a big step up from the base 991 from test drives. More than I really expected just from the 50 additional horsepower.

However, I'm also aware that not everyone prioritizes that. For some, the base 991 has all the power they'll ever use.

 

Different people have different preferences. Just wanted to point out my experience figuring out the hard way that Porsche sport cars aren't as good as sporty BMWs and Audis as daily drivers.

The difference between, say a BMW 550i M Sport or an Audi S6 and a 991 Carrera or 981 Cayman, is huge in terms of comfort, visibility, and electronics. It makes daily driving so much more pleasant and less fatiguing. Easier to get in and out, more comfortable seats (multi-contour), much less noise, you don't feel and hear every stone on the road, higher seating position so you can actually see ahead of the vehicle in front of you in a sea of tall sedans, SUVs, and trucks... Top view cameras which are very useful for parking, infotainment controls on the center console which make it very easy to use, etc. Yet the car handles very well for anything that you encounter on public roads.

I never pick up the Porsche keys when I have to do some mundane driving in the traffic mess around here. Why make it harder than it already is? On the occasions when I go for fun drives on mountain roads or the beach - yes. Commute, errands, etc. - no. Is it still worth all the expenses and hassles? Hard to say... Sometimes I think yes, and sometimes no.

Regarding parking - it is a constant concern, not just on rare occasions when you have to park in a questionable area. Porsches are vandalism magnets, and it's just a matter of the wrong person passing by at the wrong time. Happened to me in the downtown of one of the richest towns in the country.

Anyway, it's a bit off-topic, but since daily driving was mentioned... Regarding the choice of model - definitely the S - the power difference is noticeable, and you might as well get the power if you're paying this kind of money.