New member looking for 993 Cabriolet

[Boston911fan]

Hi there, my name's Evan, and I'm a new member to 6speedonline. I've been searching for the right 993 for me, and was wondering if I could get your help. I've narrowed my choices down to the '96-'98 C4 and C2 Varioram Cabriolets. Which one would you recommend and WHY?

Also, I found a C2 Cab in my first choice of colors at Victory Motorcars. What is your opinion on them? I actually paid them a visit during a recent trip to Houston. Where in Houston can I find someone to do a PPI if if comes down to buying this car? Thanks for your help!!!

[Stealth 993]

Drive them, & YOU decide what one you want. There is really not a lot of difference between them.

Victory, has a very poor rep. If you find a car there you like, find a good shop down there to check it out for you. Check the regional section for shops in Houston.

[Boston911fan]

Thanks, Stealth 993. When I visited them, the first thing I asked was if they were okay with customers performing a pre-purchase inspection at an independent shop. Coincidentally, one of the contacts who has been doing a search for a Cabriolet is the former head of the Houston area PCA chapter, and knows the owner of Victory as well as THREE independent shops that will do a PPI. Victory has a 1996 C2 Cabriolet in Midnight blue/Cashmere with only 31k miles. I am investigating it, and if I decide that I like the car, I will have it brought to one of these shops for a PPI. Thanks so much for your advice!

[ACHAHockey]

What is a PPI? Is it some kind of inspection? If so, check out Pinnacle Motorsports, my dad was the owner's (Vallandingham) racing partner for years. He should still have his site up, www.PinnacleMotorsports.com.

[sdcabrio]

Originally Posted by ACHAHockey

What is a PPI? Is it some kind of inspection? If so, check out Pinnacle Motorsports, my dad was the owner's (Vallandingham) racing partner for years. He should still have his site up, www.PinnacleMotorsports.com.

PPI = Pre Purchase Inspection. A must when buying a Porsche, or any other high end car for that matter.

[bsgore]

Evan,

Not sure if you bought already. But I second what others have said about Victory. They have a bad rep on Rennlist and, in my opinion, their cars are overpriced. My range for a nice Varioram cab (or '95' pre-) is in the 27-35K range for a car with moderate mileage (of course, exceptional cars can be more). I bought my '96 with 33K mileage for $33K because I knew the dealer and the car which I loved. If you haven't bought anything yet I'd be glad to help. I'm not a dealer but I try to keep tabs on the marke†place. By the way, here are a few places in Houston for a PPI.

Euro-Car Werk, 5103 Gulfton Way, Houston, Texas 713-661-6428

Pinnacle Motorsports, 1499 N.Post Oak Rd. #201, Houston, Texas 77055 713-682-0370

These are from a list I saw on the PCA site:

http://www.platz.com/servicecenters.html#texas

Hope this helps, and best of luck (I love the 993 the most of all my P-cars)

[BlackHorseTurbo]

I have bought 2 cars from Victory, a 1996 C2 Cab and an 04 996. I have had nothing but good experiences with them. What has been said? Both cars are great.

[BlackHorseTurbo]

Originally Posted by bsgore

Evan,

Not sure if you bought already. But I second what others have said about Victory. They have a bad rep on Rennlist and, in my opinion, their cars are overpriced. My range for a nice Varioram cab (or '95' pre-) is in the 27-35K range for a car with moderate mileage (of course, exceptional cars can be more). I bought my '96 with 33K mileage for $33K because I knew the dealer and the car which I loved. If you haven't bought anything yet I'd be glad to help. I'm not a dealer but I try to keep tabs on the marke†place. By the way, here are a few places in Houston for a PPI.

Euro-Car Werk, 5103 Gulfton Way, Houston, Texas 713-661-6428

Pinnacle Motorsports, 1499 N.Post Oak Rd. #201, Houston, Texas 77055 713-682-0370

These are from a list I saw on the PCA site:

http://www.platz.com/servicecenters.html#texas

Hope this helps, and best of luck (I love the 993 the most of all my P-cars)

bsgore,

How can you justify your second hand opinion of Victory? have you ever been to their show room? Have you met the staff? Have you ever bought a car from them? I see their inventory almost weekly. They buy some of the finest 993's available. I would recommend them. But I always do a PPI. It's just common sense. BTW, don't slam a dealer with you first post. Do your own research.

[bsgore]

Blackhorse Turbo,

I have no doubt that you have purchased two fine examples from Victory. They do have some beautiful cars, and I follow their listings on ebay. but if you look on this list and on Rennlist you'll find many examples of unhappy customers. Also, I have corresponded with Robert Neil and have felt uncomfortable dealing with him. I personally have talked to two people, including another dealer who were contac†ed by him when they were selling their cars. They were lowballed on the price, which is fine but have you noticed that a large percentage of Victory's listings on eBay never complete even at what may appear to be very reasonable offers. Please forgive me if I've offended you (personally don't care if I've offended Victory, they're used to it), I'm sure that you love your cars and the marque. And I know how I would feel if a dealer †hat I liked was slammed. So I respect your defense of them. But I do think you will find more detractors than defenders on the various forums. I was giving a heads up to Evan that he do his due diligence just as you would on any purchase.

Thanks for your considered thoughts,

billy

[BlackHorseTurbo]

Billy,

Nicely put. I just find it hard to believe that they (Victory) have a bad rap. ON the topic of the ebay autions. I know that most all of their auctions go to buyers in Europe. They are shipping 993's out weekly on a ship. They are an easy target since they are the biggest seller of 993's right now.

Todd

[bsgore]

Dear Todd,

I'm not trying to say that it is a fact that they aren't the best dealer out there. It's just an opinion and I can be wrong.
As to shipping 993's out to Europe, well, I help people there buy cars here also. But I'm not a dealer, I just try to help find them, make sure they have an independent PPI, and help the seller arrange shipping. But Porsches are so cheap here compared to there because of the dollars weakness that i† makes good sense to them. For example, your 1996 993 Cabriolet. I bought the same type of car for $33K recently. At the same time an extremely similar car was being advertised (and sold) on the UK's GT Porsche for 35K POUNDS. Even run of the mill 993's are in the 25K-30K pound range which is $50-60K dollars. So even with the import duties (say, 20%) and shipping (maybe $1,500 to $2,000 depending) they still save at least $10-20,000 dollars. Of course, left hand drive cars in the UK get less than home market, but in the EU there's no problem. And there are only minor mods to get the car approved by their respective govt. agencies. So to a European they don't flinch paying a premium for Victory's cars. And, to their credit, they know how to detail their cars beautifully. So many other dealers don't realize how little it costs to get more bucks just by cleaning up the loose ends. For example, one dealer, I won't mention their name but they are in the Rocky Mountain area, was trying to sell a nice 993 coupe but couldn't get past the $25K barrier on eBay. I wrote them several times telling them that the main problem was that the seats looked like crap and that was a big turn off to buyers. I even provided links to products that would fix the problem, all costing less than $50. I believe that †he car could reach $30K without a problem if they did that. The guy didn't and the car was relisted at least a dozen times, and on Autotrader. Presentation is so important when you're buying long distance.
The one thing I don't like about US owners vs. those overseas is that we don't usually keep good records. In the UK, service history is one of the key selling points. A good history often sells the car when repu†able service centers, Porsche or third par†y are taking care of the car.
Now the worst result of the currency imbalance is that US dealers see the high prices and think that's what they should ask. When you take in account ACTUAL buying power the, say, pound/dollar ration should be $1.20 or so. After all, if they're selling bread there for $5.00 a loaf, should we pay the same. Just take an average 993 sold there and one here and you'll see the actual value. But you have dealers artificially inflating prices (like on 356's) to 'remarkable' levels. I'm not paying $75K for a 356SC unless it was made of gold. To me it's worh at least $25K less in this market. Of course, you can always find a sucker. Look at Barrett-Jackson. Too much money, not enough sense. But look at the fall in prices of muscle car clones.

Anyway, thank you for your response. The last thing I want is to start a flame war on this excellent forum. I have a list on Yahoo (macepsonlist) that I police religiously for spam and flames. No flames, but tons of spam. Thanks again, Todd, and have fun in that great Turbo! Jealous!

billy

[Boston911fan]

Wow! I haven't checked this forum in weeks! You can usually find me on Rennlist nowadays. Anyway, I am now the proud owner of a Guards red/Cashmere leather 6-speed 1996 911 C2 Cabriolet that I got from Holt Motorsports in Philadelphia. I bought it 4 weeks ago, and it had 20k miles on it when I picked it up. I paid MUCH more than average, but it was worth it for such a nice car. I took it to Dougherty Automotive for its PPI, which it passed with flying colors. I then drove it home to Boston. I had a great experience with both Holt and Dougherty, who both have great records, unlike Victory, who's customers seem to say things at both extremes. I believe that many of you had great experiences with them, but with so many others out there with horrible experiences, I could not take a chance. I flew down to Philly to test drive my car before buying it, and while I was there, I looked at a '95 Adventure green cabriolet as well as a '97 Guards red cabriolet with 44k miles. The '97 was in slightly better shape than mine, but in the end, I opted for the car with the low mileage. I have already added RoW MO30 springs and Bilstein HDs as well as Litronics HIDs. I have a set of 993 RS Speedlines that are being refurbished and should be ready very soon. I am very happy with my new Porsche and the buying experience. I would return to Holt and Dougherty in the future.

[bsgore]

Evan,

Wonderful news. Sounds like you covered your bases. Don't worry what you paid for it if it gives you pleasure. What's that worth! Sounds like a great car. Hey, are you going to the Porsche Fest over at the Larz Anderson museum on Sept. 4th. I'm trying to get over to Beantown for a long weekend so I can take it in. PM me if you're going, we can hook up. I'm bringing my cab also.

billy

[bsgore]

Hey, I think I mean Saturday, the fifth. My bad.

[Boston911fan]

Bsgore, thanks for reminding me. I thought that it was on Sunday! I just checked the website and there's actually a Mercedes-Benz event on Sunday. How much would that have sucked to have shown up to a MB event when you were expecting to see a field full of Porsches? Anyway, I live about 30 minutes south of Brookline on Route 95. No worries if you can't meet up. If you can that's great. If not, look for me and my car there. It's Guards red and I am Chinese and look like I'm about 21 although I bought my car as an early 30th birthday present...