996 Turbo / GT2Turbo discussion on previous model 2000-2004 Porsche 911 Twin Turbo and 911 GT2. Sponsored By Vivid Racing
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lol Chris. Trust me I'm still torn on what I want. I'm waiting to here back from a friend about something. I just want to have something to keep up with my friends. All I need to do is go faster than 124mph in the 1/4..
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Kevin's software (because he's the king of turbos/programming) and Vivid's Softronic software (because I like what I heard and they have a money back guarantee).
I think it'd be prudent to obtain programming from the manufacturer of the ZC turbos (if it really is ZERO CLEARANCE) ...
Also, I didnt know that Softonic wrote software for the K16/24 hybrids ...
IMHO, I'd rather have the proper software for the turbos ... but I suppose that's just me.
TrojanMan ... how did Softronic become one of the options? What did you like about them?
I'm curious ... doesnt one need "special" software for the K16/24 hybrids because of the "quick spool" down low? I take it that more fuel would be required on the lower rpm band?
I suppose I need enlightment in this matter ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ari
K16/24 runs fine on K24 software
K24s have noticeably more lag (even on GT2)
Less weight on the GT2 will make the car faster but will NOT reduce lag, In fact, since you go through the gears quicker, one could argue that you get MORE lag on a GT2.
If you have K16s already, look no further than 16/24 upgrade, plug in any K24 flash and enjoy
Finally, if you plan on running K24 or 16/24s you absolutely need wastegates or upgraded wastegate springs. Your car will run fine mechanically, and you can't hurt it, but will not hold consistent boost past 1.1 bar. The difference is HUGE.
I would say 16/24s are better than K24s unless you a do a LOT of high speed cruising. K24s may have slightly more power up top due to reduced backpressure, but the throttle response of the 16/24s make up for it in the midrange. If you tend to cruise under 100 MPH (which you probably do) or do a lot of city driving, get the get 16/24s.
If you think you will want more than 580-600Hp in the future, get the K24s and do the 24/18 upgrade and be ready to go.
Quick spool doesn't matter. It's just boost @ RPM and the X50 flash has the required maps.
Think abut it, the computer can compensate for exhaust, air filter, stronger wastegates, this is no different.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint Ari
I'm curious ... doesnt one need "special" software for the K16/24 hybrids because of the "quick spool" down low? I take it that more fuel would be required on the lower rpm band?
I suppose I need enlightment in this matter ...
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2002 X50. Water cooled Tial GT2860RS, EVO Clubsport Intercoolers, Speedtech Y-Pipe (red), Boost Hoses, 60 lb Injectors, LWFW, RS Clutch, Remus Exhaust, DVs, GIAC FLASH To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. , 997 TT Brakes, FVD PSS9s, H&R Rear Bar, 19" Champion RG19 Monolites (15mm spacers front and rear), rollled fenders, ROTtec CF Lip and rear window spoiler, Strosek Wing.
Guys the K24 is the way to go. Even if you just bolt it in there is lots of room for upgrades down the road with larger compressors. Skip the K16/24 hybrid. It is a dead end road. Lag can be addressed with a nice free flowing exhaust. By combining the proper exhaust you will get boost response back to stock K16 levels. Check with Protomotive as he has really taken the K24 under his wing and got the most from it.
Guys the K24 is the way to go. Even if you just bolt it in there is lots of room for upgrades down the road with larger compressors. Skip the K16/24 hybrid. It is a dead end road. Lag can be addressed with a nice free flowing exhaust. By combining the proper exhaust you will get boost response back to stock K16 levels. Check with Protomotive as he has really taken the K24 under his wing and got the most from it.
Your love for the K24 platform is well known and is justified, but I think you are a bit blinded by K24 juju. K24s have their limitations as well. Protomotive uses Garretts for folks ready to go beyong their performance, so one could also say that the K24 is a "dead end road." My point is that not everyone wants more than what the K16/24s offer.
I can think of a few quick reasons why someone would choose K16/24s over K24/18Gs:
maximum goal of 500awhp
budget of $4000-5000 (for turbos and tuning)
wanting to avoid any fuel modifications
wanting lagless response (perfect for autocrossing, etc)
K24/18G can take you up to 600awhp. The 550awhp setup will cost $8K for turbos and tuning. To reach 600awhp fuel pump and injectors are required (>$2K more). They are awesome no doubt but you can't say they are best for everyone.
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Guys the K24 is the way to go. Even if you just bolt it in there is lots of room for upgrades down the road with larger compressors. Skip the K16/24 hybrid. It is a dead end road. Lag can be addressed with a nice free flowing exhaust. By combining the proper exhaust you will get boost response back to stock K16 levels. Check with Protomotive as he has really taken the K24 under his wing and got the most from it.
I been thinking about the k16/24 or k24/18g for a while now too. I have pretty much come to a similar conclusion that the k16 housing is pretty much limiting you.
I just don't see how even a k24 w/ all the bolt on's can have SOOO much lag that its night a day difference vs. the k16/24.... plus after you've exhausted the stock k24's you can swap the interals to 18g for $1000 more and have the potential to hit 700 crank hp. As it was said before, the gt2 has k24's and i've never heard people complain that it has turbo lag, and it doesn't even have any bolt-ons.
Most of us arn't driving our cars on the track 50% of the time, or even 25% so the 2/10's of a second more lag and no potential vs. a little more lag but not having to fork out thousands later when more power is needed seems like a no brainer.
Also regarding the injectors and fuel pump, if you have the boost cut out at 1.2 bar, it wouldn't be running at its full potential, would you still need the fuel pump and injectors? (upgraded FPR is a given at this point)
Just a few thoughts running through my mind right now... i'm still listening to what people have to say but as a middle ground I think the k24/18g (or base k24) is the way to go... or with the gt28's.
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2002 Seal Grey Turbo - Stage 2!!!
...Most of us arn't driving our cars on the track 50% of the time, or even 25% so the 2/10's of a second more lag and no potential vs. a little more lag but no havn't to fork out thousands more later when I want more power seems like a no brainer.
Also regarding the injectors and fuel pump, if you have the boost cut out at 1.2 bar, it wouldn't be running at its full potential, would you still need the fuel pump and injectors? (upgraded FPR is a given at this point)
Just a few thoughts running through my mind right now... i'm still listening to what people have to say but as a middle ground I think the k24/18g (or base k24) is the way to go... or with the gt28's.
Instantaneous low rpm response is just as important on the street as the track for most people. The K16 turbine will always have better low end response, where are the K24 turbine will always flow better at high rpms. It's not a question of which is better but of where are you willing to compromise.
You will need pump and injectors as you go beyond 550awhp. You can still go lean with the 1.2 bar throttle cut, and most tuners raise that anyway.
GT28s seem to be in between the K16/24 and K24/18G hybrids regarding spoolup and max power. They hit hard and fast, like the K16/24 but have much greater power potential. While the GT28s have quicker response, it looks as though the K24/18Gs flow better at 4000 rpm and above.
Again, it is about compromise. It helps to define what one wants before choosing a turbo. Is it a street driver? Highway pulls? Drag strip? Autocross? Track events? Top speed events? Each has different requirements and there is not one perfect turbo for all. And don't even try to ask who to use for tuning.
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I feel my K24/18G spool just as quick or quicker than my previous K16/24 set-up that ran 11.5 @ 127 in the 1/4 mile. I did test drive a K24/18G without the fuel system and experienced more lag than the 16/24, but with the P700 package which includes the dual fuel pumps, injectors and corresponding MAF, it is a whole different ballgame. Power is instantaneous and strong. And it is a very reliable package. I logged 15,000 daily driver miles this year, plus a few track days without any problems. This is a very solid package with exceptional power and minimal lag. The 16/24 has more lag than a K16 stage 2. The P700 with k24/18G's and fuel has less lag than a k16/24. The power with the K24/18G, when combined with the fuel system is increased to such a level that the dual mass flywheel revs like a lighweight flywheel. It brings things to a whole different level...
Having had both levels, I tend to agree with K24madness...but they are both dead ends, however, the K24/18G brings you to the end of the stock internals, whereas the K16/24 brings you to an end where there is another option before you have to touch the stock internals, so it is slightly short of the full potential. From my experience - If you want serious power, go for the K24/18G. If you want a little more quickness, go for the K16/24.
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John
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To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. (1.24 bar - 104 octane) 2002 996TT/EPL Tuned - K24/18G turbos, SpeedTech 70mm intake w/75mm Y-Pipe, 75mm TB, 60lb. injectors, SpeedTech exhaust, non-assist clutch, Greddy, PSS-9, GT3 seats
K24s have their limitations as well. Protomotive uses Garretts for folks ready to go beyong their performance, so one could also say that the K24 is a "dead end road." My point is that not everyone wants more than what the K16/24s offer. 
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