Sportec / Ultimate Motorwerks Intake...What are the gains ?
996 Turbo / GT2Turbo discussion on previous model 2000-2004 Porsche 911 Twin Turbo and 911 GT2. Sponsored By Vivid Racing
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Funny thing is that no matter what you post...you get ripped...wrong dyno blah, blah, blah. Just know at altitude I need all the air I can get...Oh yeah it makes MP!
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even though mkelly quoted below, i am removing my post to try to rectify the situation, cyber battles are for kids.
we still stand behind our product.
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Last edited by vividracing; 02-22-2008 at 09:39 AM.
Im using the agency power box...and I like it because though it doesnt look that great, its a GREAT performance value...why spend big bucks on sportec?
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04 996 GT3-cobalt-HI VOLTAGE!
08 CLK BLK--The SIN IS IN...
I have the vivid racing (agency power) air intake for several months now,I know people are afraid because its aluminium and they think it's bad for the intake temperature but I have the brockway R920 and it measures air intake temperature.All I can tell you there is absolutely no difference in air intake temperature between stock box and vivid box and when I cut a second hole in it temperatures dropped with 2-3 degrees celcius (also added 2nd snorkel)
Until now zero maf problems and car is running great.After I made some adjustments to the box I also think it looks great.
I believe that the intakes are NOT the limiting factor (or significant factor) in pressure drop for these turbo'd motors until flow rates get very high- ie past 650-700 HP. Only after you've upgraded programming, turbos, fuel, diverters should you be looking at the intake air filters.
I suspect the difference in HP will be zero under 600HP.
Just MHO, love to see some data on this though...
A
A BMC filter and maybe a second hole will do a great job.... I had it I know. Its only when you get into aftermarket MAfs and 600+ HP lets say that one should really be looking at airboxes...
But then, most airboxes available are now affordable... so $500 is a no brainer. However, I would never spend $2K on a box that goes into a P car with 600 crank HP... just a waste of money in my opinion...
Save your money and get a good clutch because that is next to brake...
markski
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01 996TT - 9.91 sec.145.64 mph 1/4 mile (4.62 sec. 60 to 130mph) 06 CLS AMG
A BMC filter and maybe a second hole will do a great job.... I had it I know. Its only when you get into aftermarket MAfs and 600+ HP lets say that one should really be looking at airboxes...
But then, most airboxes available are now affordable... so $500 is a no brainer. However, I would never spend $2K on a box that goes into a P car with 600 crank HP... just a waste of money in my opinion...
Save your money and get a good clutch because that is next to brake...
markski
How much hp/tq did you "actually" get with the BMC...any engine problems (dirt..say you use it as your main car....snow/rain/dust....)? Did that second how cause trouble as you sat still.....is that even an issue? Rain? Do you have pictures of what/how you did it.
What I am thinking is to do the same thing and add a "rain gutter" if you will over the hole......
Appreciate the wisdom. With a fully built engine, high HP...then the 2k box makes sense. Plus it is art and art is art. But for my 550hp engine.....I don't think I need it.
JB
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jcb-memphis
2002 996TT midnight blue/natural brown (my DD) Uber fun every day in all weather. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
I have the Vivid box and it performs well, it will be running at VIR next month for anyone who wants to check it out in person.
I do think it is better than stock or other designs so far but not necessary for all. It doesnt blow MAF's, looks and sounds good, I dont have dyno results
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'02 996TT X-50 SY
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You either want to buy a airbox for the looks or noise element or for performance.
A factory airbox with a cut out left side opening will flow more air into the MAF housing than the aftermarket cone style filter systems.. Before the marketing drummers start breaking there drum sticks, let me see your CFM and velocity flow bench numbers.. I have them and have spent the money to test them..
The limiting factor is the diameter of the MAF housing. The factory flat panel filter has LESS static back-pressure vs the cone filters that are used. With that said, cutting a hole on the left side of the airbox will NOT give you any HP gains unless you DUCT cold air from you wing into the left side opening>> similar to what Dixie has done..
The gains for the Sportec box is seen once as speeds are above 30MPH which allows a "Ram Air" effect with cold air entering the MAF housing.
You either want to buy a airbox for the looks or noise element or for performance.
A factory airbox with a cut out left side opening will flow more air into the MAF housing than the aftermarket cone style filter systems.. Before the marketing drummers start breaking there drum sticks, let me see your CFM and velocity flow bench numbers.. I have them and have spent the money to test them..
The limiting factor is the diameter of the MAF housing. The factory flat panel filter has LESS static back-pressure vs the cone filters that are used. With that said, cutting a hole on the left side of the airbox will NOT give you any HP gains unless you DUCT cold air from you wing into the left side opening>> similar to what Dixie has done..
The gains for the Sportec box is seen once as speeds are above 30MPH which allows a "Ram Air" effect with cold air entering the MAF housing.
Thanks. I still love the look of the sportec box....
Anyone know how much if anything a BMC gives you with the stock box...over a clean paper unit....
TIA
JB
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jcb-memphis
2002 996TT midnight blue/natural brown (my DD) Uber fun every day in all weather. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Sold: 1995 993 C4-3.8 with TurboS mods.
Last edited by jcb-memphis; 02-21-2008 at 01:57 PM.
MKelly speaks of our airbox of course like in every thread. Please Mike, just say you dont like the Agency Power box. Its ok... The other 100 or so customers in the USA, UK, Belgium, Australia, and Japan are still content. And my car which puts down almost 600awhp on my heart breaker Mustang Dyno works fine with it. So do my 650 kit customers cars and our basic reflash customers. Hey I dont force the intake on anyone, its up to them what they want to run.
The Sportec box is the same as your stock box just buy looking at it. Like Markski said, cut a hole in the left side of your stock air box. All it is a replacement flat panel filter. Get a $70 K&N or $150 BMC. The design only works better of course if the left side hole is getting air too. Yes a BIG MAF intake if tuned should be the best solution. We do it all day long in the Subaru world on Turbo STI's. Most guys buying intakes just want a little more throttle response, a little more power, and a better sounding engine.
As far as being "metal", its aluminum, its cost affective, and makes power. Its powdercoated and finished well for our first run with a touch of style using the silicone color to dress the engine up with our matching FHose and Boost Hoses. Guys dont want to spend $2000 or even $800 on a intake. Like Jimmer said, who wants the ding on their credit card? You dont like the intake... If your going to post about it, please say you dont like the Agency Power intake. At least customers will know and then can read other feedback.
I, we, spent time testing different setups, stock box, aftermarket flat panel filters, cone filters of many different sizes. Running the car with NO FILTER and just a screen to keep the air laminar, and guess what, ours still works. You know what the best issue is, no MAF issues. Between the Fabspeed deal and a EVO box, I blew 3 MAFS on a stock K16 car with flash and exhaust. That is why I made ours. Testing our intake with temperature probes on the inside of the stock box and aftermarket box compared to the outside engine air was really no different. Its just like in every other turbo car forum, "do I get a short ram or a cold air". It does not really matter in the scheme of things street cars. The car is intercooled so your better off running it like a GT3 cup car with one big ass filter just getting alot of air volume from the decklid air flow.
I have personally been nothing but helpful for the times you have called me. You PM'd me saying our Airbox was causing you to lose boost pressure. I told you that does not make sense. Not possible unless you had a boost leak. However when you put your stock box in you seem to make more boost. I asked if you could explain the correlation cause it did not make sense to me. PLEASE, send it back, throw it away, give it to someone else, and I will gladly give you every $$$ back. I tell every customer that with any of our products because I am confident in our service and performance. Buy a 650 kit, you think it is junk, sweet take it off send it back. My line is always open to discuss this, sorry for the rant as these are only typed words, but I have the right to defend our product. At the end, like every other challenge we have faced, we are the new blood, alot of people dont like it. I wont respond to this thread. Sorry for the off topic.
So the answer to this thread question... I have no idea what the gains are. If the box is tested on a dyno and the box uses a stock style BMC or K&N air flow, I would guess 7-10 as that is what I got with just a K&N. Maybe more street driving cause of the air flow.
Dan, Feel better?
Say what you will about your version of what happened in our transaction, but there is more than one side to a story. I didn't want to jump thru any more hurdles or deal with anymore bull**** from someone stating "If you don't like our product, just send it back." Then I get multiple PMs grilling me about my concerns. Reality is that I swapped your box and nothing else and my boost went into the toilet. I disconnected the battery and reset it... Drove it another mile and had the same issue... Bolt the stock box back on and get back to 1.2 bar of boost. Same MAFS, Same Everything else. So say what you will, but there was SOMETHING up with that box.
No, I took a $100 loss to get rid of what I thought was an inferior product, rather than deal with you anymore. And reality is that I was being ETHICAL in my stance of not taking your "FREE" air cleaner, as an olive branch. It never was about getting something from you. It was about not beeing happy with the product and wanting a refund, not getting something for nothing.
No, I went away and didn't post anymore specifically regarding VIVID or mention your company by name, as I said I wouldn't in email. Can't say that about yourself now can you... Enjoy that sale on the air box. You'll not get anymore gifts from me.
A quick search on the internet and people will read all the "wonderful" customer relations between Vivid and their automitive community. I'm done here, but an educated and informed buyer can spot bad business across the globe... Buyer beware, and you get what you pay for.
Mike
__________________ UMW Tuned K16-24 Turbos/Wastegates/5Bar FPR, Bailey DVs, VIVID Carbon Lid and SAMCO boost hoses!
Say what you will about your version of what happened in our transaction, but there is more than one side to a story. I didn't want to jump thru any more hurdles or deal with anymore bull**** from someone stating "If you don't like our product, just send it back." Then I get multiple PMs grilling me about my concerns. Reality is that I swapped your box and nothing else and my boost went into the toilet. I disconnected the battery and reset it... Drove it another mile and had the same issue... Bolt the stock box back on and get back to 1.2 bar of boost. Same MAFS, Same Everything else. So say what you will, but there was SOMETHING up with that box.
No, I took a $100 loss to get rid of what I thought was an inferior product, rather than deal with you anymore. And reality is that I was being ETHICAL in my stance of not taking your "FREE" air cleaner, as an olive branch. It never was about getting something from you. It was about not beeing happy with the product and wanting a refund, not getting something for nothing.
No, I went away and didn't post anymore specifically regarding VIVID or mention your company by name, as I said I wouldn't in email. Can't say that about yourself now can you... Enjoy that sale on the air box. You'll not get anymore gifts from me.
A quick search on the internet and people will read all the "wonderful" customer relations between Vivid and their automitive community. I'm done here, but an educated and informed buyer can spot bad business across the globe... Buyer beware, and you get what you pay for.
Mike
I have AP's intake, no boost loss here. May be yours has defects?
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