Ring And Pinion Gear Destroyed!!!

[tom kerr]

Well just came from the shop to check on my Guard 50/80 LSD that was going into the tranny and going RWD. Well the tranny was not in the car but on the bench. Well I am no mechanic but I thought the LSD didnt require the tranny removal! Well it doesnt. the tranny had metal shavings so it was pulled. all gears perfect as well as syncros, oil like new (changed after every event) and pinion gear destroyed, eaten up, teeth broken. Pics to follow, with the above info, any reason why this happened? fluid changed every event car never on track for more than 30 minutes to avoid heat, and running basic k-24 hybrids so no mad power. reasons and solutions welcome, and yea I know I break alot of stuff!! thanks in advance tom ok I edited this to add the pics

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[jimmer23]

Man Tom, sucks to hear. You didn't have any symptoms? Drove and shifted fine? Odd right...

[996TT_STEVO]

Tom, you been racing in reverse?

Not good, but at least it's getting done the same time as the lsd

Want to see the pics, very strange as that is down to a power issue surely.

[996TT_STEVO]

Originally Posted by jimmer23

Man Tom, sucks to hear. You didn't have any symptoms? Drove and shifted fine? Odd right...

You ready for next week?

[jimmer23]

10 days man - GET READY

[triple_nickel]

Originally Posted by tom kerr

Well just came from the shop to check on my Guard 50/80 LSD that was going into the tranny and going RWD.
Well the tranny was not in the car but on the bench.
Well I am no mechanic but I thought the LSD didnt require the tranny removal! Well it doesnt. the tranny had metal shavings so it was pulled.
all gears perfect as well as syncros, oil like new (changed after every event)
and pinion gear destroyed, eaten up, teeth broken.

Pics to follow, with the above info, any reason why this happened?
fluid changed every event car never on track for more than 30 minutes to avoid heat, and running basic k-24 hybrids so no made power.

reasons and solutions welcome, and yea I know I break alot of stuff!!

thanks in advance

tom

Tom,

I just had a real good conversation about my transmission issues with Roger at CMS in Lake Havasu City (http://www.californiamotorsports.net/). Very knowledgeable and helpful. Maybe worth a call...

When I was drag racing back in the day, the one thing that really broke ring and pinions was tire shake or chatter. It's like hitting the the gears with a jack hammer. I know on a 'rough' race track, the AWDs can get the same effect from unloading the tires and then hooking up violently, especially when banging kerbs and what not.

[Staff@RPM]

Hi Tom, Sounds like the cast plate that holds the lay shaft to the case (sets the pinion depth) is flexing or cracked might even broke off one or two bolts! The GT2/3 one is steel and is more resistant to this.... Hope it all work out, Tim

[Red 9]

R & P is vunerable even when everything is done correctly. They wear--particularly on track and with the sort of numbers you are putting thru it.Hope it all works out well.

[tom kerr]

thanks guys I will make some calls.

any votes for changing the gearing of the R+P to Cup car gearing?

well you know what they say, todays problem is tomorrows upgrade!!

I was thinking adding the Cup parts and a tranny cooler?

Thoughts..............??
thanks again

tom

[Red 9]

I would stay with the 9:31 R&P ( would be interested in some expert opinion on that) and do some shuffling of the ratios IE
Discard existing 6th and move existing 5th into 6th.
Move existing 3rd to 4th
Get new 3rd--- about 1.65 or so
I am not sure if you can use existing 4th as 5th-- if you cannot then a new gear will be needed there also.
The problem with going to 8:32 R & P is that it makes short gears even less usable.
So gears and approx speeds would look like this-
Presuming 9:31 R & P and 7000 max RPM
1st 3.818 = 67 KMH == current ratio
2nd 2.047 = 125 == current ratio
3rd 1.65 = 155 == new
4th 1.407 = 182 == current 3rd
5th 1.117 = 229 == current 4th ( may be new gear req'd)
6th . 91.8 = 281 == current 5th
This is cheapest result that improves ratio's dramatically. From track perspective,taking into account the torque characteritics it gives considerable choices as to what gear to use eg short shift etc and still keep engine on the torque curve.There is also the option to raise rev limit slightly to accommadate a track chareristic if you want to save a shift somewhere.

[WOODTSTER]

Tom,

I have no words of wisdom, but I wish you well in your constant pursuit of better parts
through track usage. We all learn from this. BTW, have you changed out your axles?
Alot of Cup Car guys go through axles.
thanks,

Marty

[tom kerr]

Originally Posted by Red 9

I would stay with the 9:31 R&P ( would be interested in some expert opinion on that) and do some shuffling of the ratios IE
Discard existing 6th and move existing 5th into 6th.
Move existing 3rd to 4th
Get new 3rd--- about 1.65 or so
I am not sure if you can use existing 4th as 5th-- if you cannot then a new gear will be needed there also.
The problem with going to 8:32 R & P is that it makes short gears even less usable.
So gears and approx speeds would look like this-
Presuming 9:31 R & P and 7000 max RPM
1st 3.818 = 67 KMH == current ratio
2nd 2.047 = 125 == current ratio
3rd 1.65 = 155 == new
4th 1.407 = 182 == current 3rd
5th 1.117 = 229 == current 4th ( may be new gear req'd)
6th . 91.8 = 281 == current 5th
This is cheapest result that improves ratio's dramatically. From track perspective,taking into account the torque characteritics it gives considerable choices as to what gear to use eg short shift etc and still keep engine on the torque curve.There is also the option to raise rev limit slightly to accommadate a track chareristic if you want to save a shift somewhere.

thanks for your input, like this idea, trying to get some kind of upgrade out of this!!!

Marty, it pains me to share the bad stuff. I admit to myself and all, I have run this car long and hard and stuff wears out and breaks. I have no regrets.

I would however like to know if I have done something wrong or could have prevented something or could make something better.

the car will continue to be beat like a rented mule that is what it is for and I love and enjoy every minute of it.

[Zippy]

Good luck Tom. Glad to see you turning it into a positive. Looking forward to your comments on that rather aggressive LSD.

Mike

[heavychevy]

Tom you are more helpful than you know though I wouldnt have wished any of this on you to begin with. Thanks for sharing. You still have the most track miles on your car likely be far than anyone here, so your car is pretty much the test mule for the limits of the TT on the track, though if there are some preventative measures or techniques that can be applied, I'd sure like to know them.

[tom kerr]

well from talking to all the experts so far I am going with the "sh!t happens" theory

meaning that my car is 6 years old (90 in human years!) and like my patients with age stuff goes bad even when the patients take great care of themselves.

I do everything to prevent my car (and my patients) from getting disease. when it happens I look for causes and accept the inevitable.

I will accept this as track wear and tear, replace it with a GT2 pinion since I went RWD and not loose any sleep over it.

thanks for the inputs.

tom