K24/18g vs Tial GT28 "alpha," what i'v learned.

[vbmw335]

Originally Posted by bmoores It should just provide a benchmark so you know what your car is truly capable of. If you are a ****ty driver ....... well that is something only you can improve on. I really cant see that much of a driver skill here, we are shifting from 3rd to 4th...how hard is that? esp for a track junkie like Jason. I would rate him above average driver with ton of track experience. He is under selling his skills here.

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[jasonfreed]

Mbailey - not sweating it at all!

I think it's funny that people put so much into these types of numbers.

The only numbers that are comparable from car to car that will tell you about the car's true performance (not driver skill) are numbers that don't require driver skill.

[VividRacingTX]

Originally Posted by vbmw335

I really cant see that much of a driver skill here, we are shifting from 3rd to 4th...how hard is that? esp for a track junkie like Jason.

I would rate him above average driver with ton of track experience. He is under selling his skills here.

Sounds like it's just too hot up there right now... You've got the HP..

[MBailey]

Originally Posted by jasonfreed

It tells you more about the driver's skill.

Unfortunately, nothing can totally take driver skill out of the equation. I have thought of getting someone else to drive my car sometime to maybe improve on some times but have never done it.

[vrybad]

Originally Posted by 007-911

Im going to have to try this on another box

You have to go out and practice and learn how to run a 60-130 time.
Optimum gear and speed, shift speed.

It is all in the technique.

[jasonfreed]

Well, if you had a logging tool that could measure a given RPM spread in the same gear and all the test required was setting the cruise control at, let's say 3000rpm in 3rd, hitting start on the logging tool and then flooring it until you hit 7000rpm, you'd likely have a more accurate reading without a shift.

This is providing you are not driving downhill which can have a HUGE impact on a number like this.

[bmoores]

Originally Posted by vbmw335

I really cant see that much of a driver skill here, we are shifting from 3rd to 4th...how hard is that? esp for a track junkie like Jason.

I would rate him above average driver with ton of track experience. He is under selling his skills here.

I think you'd be surprised truthfully in the variation of shift times from driver to driver.

With that said I can tell you that when I ran my 60-130 my shift times were just about as quick as anyones posted yet my time was off by about a full second. Investigating into that resulted in wastegate problems and clutch problems. If you have a benchmark car with a similar setup it can be used as a great indicator of where you car should be with all variable considered.

[PAULIEWALNUTS]

Most cars(with same setup) will vary about .2-.8 in 60-130 depending on conditions.(eg. temp,wind etc)

[vrybad]

Originally Posted by jasonfreed

If running your "best" 60-130 time is the goal and there is that much variability in technique, I say it is a pretty useless measurement of performance car to car.

Now, if everybody started with cruise control on at say, 3000rpm in 3rd gear and floored it up to 7000rpm (no driver involvment), then we all started comparing #'s, it might be useful.

I could really care less what my 60-130 time is except that if someone can pull 10 cars on me from 60-130 with the same hardware, then I'd like to know who can do that aqnd find out who can tune my car to do that

Pulling 10 cars at those speeds requires HUGE HP increases. I find it hard to believe there are people with such varying degrees of HP on the same hardware set-ups.

That's why i think there is too much variability in comparing 60-130 times.

You'd never go from a roll like that against anyone.

If you are on the highway and roll out against someone, you have to know how to optimize the performance of your car versus theirs.
That is what practicing the 60-130 is all about, getting the most out of your car.

[vbmw335]

Originally Posted by PAULIEWALNUTS

Most cars(with same setup) will vary about .2-.8 in 60-130 depending on conditions.(eg. temp,wind etc)

Yeah but we arent even close running 8.2 - 8.8...something must be up with our k24/18g and Gt28 Tial cars.

[vbmw335]

Originally Posted by bmoores

I think you'd be surprised truthfully in the variation of shift times from driver to driver.

With that said I can tell you that when I ran my 60-130 my shift times were just about as quick as anyones posted yet my time was off by about a full second. Investigating into that resulted in wastegate problems and clutch problems. If you have a benchmark car with a similar setup it can be used as a great indicator of where you car should be with all variable considered.

The problem is we dont have another 6 sec car in Chicago to compare. Our cars made similar dyno #'s so it cant be the car. Its Markski's Box ..j/k

Maybe we should run Markski's 4 sec car and see the difference in car or bus lengths..lol

I will keep trying and see if something changes.

[vrybad]

Originally Posted by jasonfreed

Mbailey - not sweating it at all!

I think it's funny that people put so much into these types of numbers.

The only numbers that are comparable from car to car that will tell you about the car's true performance (not driver skill) are numbers that don't require driver skill.

Jason,
No offense, man, but if you saw a 6.60 on that PBox you'd be jumping up and down about how quick your car is, and trying to figure out how to go quicker.
We've all done it!
Just keep practicing, you'll improve.
These lists are fun, and competitive, and allow everyone to shoot for something and have fun doing it.
Unfortunately, cars only work with someone behind the wheel, so there will never be a way to take the driver completely out of the equation.
Technically, you are right, standardize testing for same gear, same rpm, etc, but that isn't the real world.

[jasonfreed]

vrybad -

I could really care less what 60-130 time my car runs. I only did a run to verify that my car would, in fact, run as slow as the other two ran.

My feeling is that with the same hardware, most of these cars will run side by side with each other but may have vastly different 60-130 times.

Again, there is nothing on a computer in my car that would make me want to jump up and down.

Just being able to drive a car like this at these power levels makes me want to jump up and down

[Dr_jitsu]

Originally Posted by jasonfreed

bmoores - I agree.

BUT, people cannot be comparing car to car using 60-130 times if there is a different driver of each car because there is so much variability in driver.

I think it's a valid measurement using the same driver.

People here seem to think it's a good way to measure a cars power. I say, it's a better way to find out who is a ****ty driver

If I run a, say 5.79 and you run, say an 8.79 it means at least the following.

1. My car is better

2. I am a better driver

3. Given the chance I would steal your girlfriend and get her to do anything I wanted on the first date

4. I would slam dunk over you

5. Beat you in Ping pong and chess.

6. Have a much higher GPA from a better college and a PhD/MD/JD to your BA

7. Make more money

8. Have more favor with God

[jasonfreed]

Originally Posted by Dr_jitsu

If I run a, say 5.79 and you run, say an 8.79 it means at least the following.

1. My car is better

2. I am a better driver

3. Given the chance I would steal your girlfriend and get her to do anything I wanted on the first date

4. I would slam dunk over you

5. Beat you in Ping pong and chess.

6. Have a much higher GPA from a better college and a PhD/MD/JD to your BA

7. Make more money

8. Have more favor with God

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!hil arious