996 Turbo / GT2Turbo discussion on previous model 2000-2004 Porsche 911 Twin Turbo and 911 GT2. Sponsored By Vivid Racing
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ok...then just go out,turn on your Pbox and floor it at 35mph to see your actual 60-130 time...before this thread has 100pages...
That's the fun of these threads - getting them to 100 pages!
I don't have one of these boxes. I was with 2 guys doing some fun runs. When all of our cars were pretty equal starting from different speeds, they asked that I do a 60-130 pull with the box.
I did it. No special technique tried. I don't have the box anymore and honestly, could really care less what the thing runs.
The ONLY thing I care about is that my car is making similar power to other comparably equiped cars and retains good daily drivability - which it does (I think).
One of the 3 cars in the mix was running meth injection, which puts it in the exact same category as a race gas car.
Pump+ meth is = to race gas.
Pump without meth is not.
Just out of curiosity do you guys believe running water injection (not 100% meth) is "in the exact same category as race gas"?
Its my understanding that the cooling effects of the water allows you to run higher boost and leaner mixtures...the increased density (or higher pressure ratio) is what makes the increased power, not the water.
Just out of curiosity do you guys believe running water injection (not 100% meth) is "in the exact same category as race gas"?
Its my understanding that the cooling effects of the water allows you to run higher boost and leaner mixtures...the increased density (or higher pressure ratio) is what makes the increased power, not the water.
100% pure water? probably not, but if it is a water/meth mix, yes since you can run more boost, which is what Diveexx was saying.
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Just out of curiosity do you guys believe running water injection (not 100% meth) is "in the exact same category as race gas"?
Its my understanding that the cooling effects of the water allows you to run higher boost and leaner mixtures...the increased density (or higher pressure ratio) is what makes the increased power, not the water.
Technically, yes, kind of.
Increased power/torque is gained by increases in cylinder pressure, which can be achieved either by increasing pressure ratio, and creating a denser, more volatile air/fuel mixture in the chamber, or by increasing ignition timing with no increase in pressure ratio(or both).
The cooling effect helps minimize detonation, as does the added octane from the meth.
Either way, if you can run more cylinder pressure because of water/meth injection, technically it is not pump gas.
Still not race gas, but not pump, either.
A drop of water has nothing on me
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60-130 is a measure that I really hate. It basically is for people who are too big of babies to set foot on a track because they are afraid they could miss a gear due to ****ty driving. Even rolling out of the hole and making a complete pass can show a true guesstimate of how much power the car is really making. That is why there is NO 60-130 HP CALCULATOR! The fact that 60-130 is really gimped by gearing on some cars, like a Vette with stock 3.42's and a stock transmission (Non-z06). They have to start in 2nd gear and have 2 shifts which kills the 60-130. My brothers car which went a 10.55 @ 128 (letting out) and a best mph on his 10.6 @ 132mph pass on motor with his old heads. I think he barely managed a 7 or something on a ****ty day when in reality he would mop the floor with almost any K24/18G car (Minus Chris Green) there is. The Vette gearing KILLS the Porsche considering in 4th gear my brothers car can go 160-165mph. The Porsche is well into 6th gear almost at those speed (with a stock or close to stock rev limiter). Hell my brother only managed a 5.2 pass when in reality if we would have lined up Scott's old 996TT from a roll or heads up on the track it would be a win favoring the Vette without a problem (No offense Scott because your 996TT is/was a bad bitch!). Matt's car should run anywhere from a 150-155mph in the summer heat. Yet it only managed a 5.2 on a 10.7 @ 147mph pass (we had the n2o progressive set to go from 150-300 in 5seconds)... Then you have people that believe that cause it only ran a 5.2 that it should be a close race, but don't realize a car that does 15-20mph more than him at the 1/4 mile mph mark will be bus lengths out on them if Matt has traction.
Further more please stop bringing up the fact that Pump + Meth is the same as 109octane race gas files. It's equiv to MAYBE a 100oct file which in a EPL cars case the car is tuned with really low timing so that it can safely run on pump+meth and still run a decent amount of boost to make the power. I would NEVER run my car on 22-24psi on Meth + Pump and even Tony will agree with me that it would be stupid. Now if I have 109 I feel more than comfortable about running that amount of boost. I plan on adding Meth for my race gas amount of boost just to cool the intake charge (basically to make more power). People forget that it not only adds octane to the car, but it also lowers the intake charge.
Sorry if I offend people here, but I'm really getting tired of 60-130 this... 60-130 that... Take the car to the f***ing 1/4 mile if you want a real measure of power. The only thing you are doing with 60-130 is comparing yourself to other Porsches, and that's not what you are going to run into on the street.
So if you have larger ICs for better cooling you'd have the same argument, no? But thats not like running race gas....this is why I thought the comments about WI cars being put in the race gas category was b/c of the increase in octane. (I'm under the impression the OP who is running WI is running 100% meth)
Quote:
Originally Posted by vrybad
Either way, if you can run more cylinder pressure because of water/meth injection, technically it is not pump gas.
Still not race gas, but not pump, either.
I have seen both your brothers car and Scotts car go and you are wrong if you think your brothers car would win in a roll on.
The 60-130 doesn't break axels which is no big deal on cheap American muscle but is a very big (financial) deal on German cars (I was going to run the 1/4 in my M3 the other night until I saw another E46 break its axel).
I have tremendous respect for 1/4 miling and road coursing. Why is it that people who have ****ty 60-130 times are the only ones who don't respect the 60-130? Why has Jason said about 20 times that he doesn't care about his 60-130 when clearly he does care?
__________________
2002 Porsche GT2 with GT 30's Tuned by Protomotive. 60-130 Street Tire Champion Tx2K8 and Tx2K9.
2004 BMW Individual M3: BHS Supercharged Stage 2. 8.59 60-130
2009 Mercedes E350
2004 Porsche Cayenne TT.
60-130 is a measure that I really hate. It basically is for people who are too big of babies to set foot on a track because they are afraid they could miss a gear due to ****ty driving. Even rolling out of the hole and making a complete pass can show a true guesstimate of how much power the car is really making. That is why there is NO 60-130 HP CALCULATOR! The fact that 60-130 is really gimped by gearing on some cars, like a Vette with stock 3.42's and a stock transmission (Non-z06). They have to start in 2nd gear and have 2 shifts which kills the 60-130. My brothers car which went a 10.55 @ 128 (letting out) and a best mph on his 10.6 @ 132mph pass on motor with his old heads. I think he barely managed a 7 or something on a ****ty day when in reality he would mop the floor with almost any K24/18G car (Minus Chris Green) there is. The Vette gearing KILLS the Porsche considering in 4th gear my brothers car can go 160-165mph. The Porsche is well into 6th gear almost at those speed (with a stock or close to stock rev limiter). Hell my brother only managed a 5.2 pass when in reality if we would have lined up Scott's old 996TT from a roll or heads up on the track it would be a win favoring the Vette without a problem (No offense Scott because your 996TT is/was a bad bitch!). Matt's car should run anywhere from a 150-155mph in the summer heat. Yet it only managed a 5.2 on a 10.7 @ 147mph pass (we had the n2o progressive set to go from 150-300 in 5seconds)... Then you have people that believe that cause it only ran a 5.2 that it should be a close race, but don't realize a car that does 15-20mph more than him at the 1/4 mile mph mark will be bus lengths out on them if Matt has traction.
Further more please stop bringing up the fact that Pump + Meth is the same as 109octane race gas files. It's equiv to MAYBE a 100oct file which in a EPL cars case the car is tuned with really low timing so that it can safely run on pump+meth and still run a decent amount of boost to make the power. I would NEVER run my car on 22-24psi on Meth + Pump and even Tony will agree with me that it would be stupid. Now if I have 109 I feel more than comfortable about running that amount of boost. I plan on adding Meth for my race gas amount of boost just to cool the intake charge (basically to make more power). People forget that it not only adds octane to the car, but it also lowers the intake charge.
Sorry if I offend people here, but I'm really getting tired of 60-130 this... 60-130 that... Take the car to the f***ing 1/4 mile if you want a real measure of power. The only thing you are doing with 60-130 is comparing yourself to other Porsches, and that's not what you are going to run into on the street.
The reason why 60-130 is not a measure of power, YET, is because it hasn't had enough time to become popular like the 1/4 mile. Truly, if you want to really measure a car, 1/2 mile is good.
1/4 mile ET is all about the driver. 1/4 mile speed is a lot about power, but the driver has a little to do with it.
60-130 is a realistic number, after all how many times have you come to a dead stop on a freeway to roll someone.. light to light is 1/4 mile and with todays traffic that is less likely. BMW M board does all it's rolls from somewhere in the 30-50 mph range not from a dig.
1/4 mile is abusive to the drivetrain, Fact! is it cool, yeah. But abusive non the less.
water/meth may not be the same as a 109 race file, but it is still a race file, like it or not. you really want to compare cars, then do so on pump gas. the only true comparison. If you run C16 and I run 109, not the same if you run WI and I run 109, not the same. Pump gas files will not benefit much from race fuel added, so it is a better measure of what is going on between cars.
Any timed speed/distance event is a measure of power.
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Just out of curiosity do you guys believe running water injection (not 100% meth) is "in the exact same category as race gas"?
In terms of advantages gained, absolutely. Whether or not you use race gas, water/alcohol, or water/meth...it allows you to run higher boost and more timing without causing pre-detonation, which nets you more power.
The advantage water/meth (or anything similar) gives, is that it costs a lot less
$$ over the long term than using race gas does.
There is absolutely zero accuracy in comparing a car running pump gas +water/meth to a pump gas only car. The water/meth car must be compared to a race gas car, since the two cars will make almost identical HP at similar boost levels.
So if you have larger ICs for better cooling you'd have the same argument, no?
No, because you can't run out of IC on a long drive.
Race fuel, W/I and NOS are all the same in my book. If you want to squeeze the most out of your car, then go for it. But there is no difference in my book. They are not what you use day in and day out. If your car can't race on pump gas because it has a race tune or if you are squeezing something out of a bottle that eventually runs out, it is all the same.
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No, because you can't run out of IC on a long drive.
Race fuel, W/I and NOS are all the same in my book. If you want to squeeze the most out of your car, then go for it. But there is no difference in my book. They are not what you use day in and day out. If your car can't race on pump gas because it has a race tune or if you are squeezing something out of a bottle that eventually runs out, it is all the same.
By your logic, pump gas is also no good becuase it will (eventually...in 50-60 years or so) run out.
I keep a barrel of race gas in my garage.
__________________
2002 Porsche GT2 with GT 30's Tuned by Protomotive. 60-130 Street Tire Champion Tx2K8 and Tx2K9.
2004 BMW Individual M3: BHS Supercharged Stage 2. 8.59 60-130
2009 Mercedes E350
2004 Porsche Cayenne TT.
By your logic, pump gas is also no good becuase it will (eventually...in 50-60 years or so) run out.
I keep a barrel of race gas in my garage.
well, better 50-60 years, than after a 300 mile drive. Do you have a roof rack for your drum of race gas? lol.
do you have any info on your car on pump gas? Maybe then you can see how it compares to the factory supercars listed in Diveex's sticky.
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In terms of advantages gained, absolutely. Whether or not you use race gas, water/alcohol, or water/meth...it allows you to run higher boost without causing pre-detonation, which nets you more power.
The advantage water/meth (or anything similar) gives, is that it costs a lot less
$$ over the long term than using race gas does.
There is absolutely zero accuracy in comparing a car running pump gas +water/meth to a pump gas only car. The water/meth car must be compared to a race gas car, since the two cars will make almost identical HP at similar boost levels.
So what is the goal of comparing here then? The OP was comparing gt28s to 24/18gs..... there are differences in hardware....
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