Thinking of building your motor? New EVOMS Head Studs...
996 Turbo / GT2Turbo discussion on previous model 2000-2004 Porsche 911 Twin Turbo and 911 GT2. Sponsored By Vivid Racing
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The 10mm head studs were designed from the 12mm studs that are in your engine. Since many potential engine builds will not require the additional machine work and expenses associated with our 12mm stud conversion, we developed this direct replacement stud as well. Our 10mm studs were engineered and manufactured using the same design principals and materials as the 12mm studs and are a tremendous upgrade over the OEM or the other studs commonly found in the aftermarket. Our 10mm studs will be sufficient for most applications except for the ones that want to go to the extreme
Thank you Todd,
Congrats to you and Jenn to the new addition to your family. I hope Jenn and your new bundle of joy are doing well
Cheers,
Ben
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02' Seal Grey on Black TT with EVOMS GT800+, Water Cooled GT3076, EVOMSit To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. , EVOMS I/C's, 83 lbs Injectors, EVOMS dual fuel pump system, CF driveshaft, Sachs Stage 3 clutch, EVOMS motor build, 12mm head studs, GT30 Cams, 76MM TB, Custom gearbox, 3" Exhaust, 47mm Headers, 14" BBK, GT3R brake ducts, PSS9's, H&R Front & Rear Sway Bars, SS Brake Lines, EVOMS SSK, EVOMS V-Flow, V1, K40 LD5500, Recaro Sport Topline seats, Full OEM GT2 Front Bumper conversion, OEM GT2 Rear deck lid and spoiler, Toyo RA1's 245/335 18's
However, in my opinion you do not understand the problem.
A little logic here first. 12.00mm Head studs will not stretch under any sort of cylinder pressure ever applied to one of these engines. 10.00mm Head studs will not either. In fact Top Fuel engines use 9/16" diameter studs, a little bigger than 12.00mm but the pressures exerted on those are numbers we cannnot even compare to.
All of these Head studs are merely bandaids on the real problem. It has never been a stud issue. In fact I challenge anyone here to put up some data to show the studs stretching. You are telling me that the 10.00mm and 12.00mm studs made of good grade steel stretch allowing the Heads to lift and this is the cause of Head gasket failure. If so, I have some water front property we need to discuss.
The reason the Head gaskets fail is not because the Studs stretch. Those that teach this are merely wishing to seperate you from your money with another product you have to have. The real reasons these failures occur has nothing to do with the studs. In fact, we want the studs to stretch. This is the reason we make sure the tensile is in the stud. Studs under tensile act as shock absorbers under load.
Building high perfromance engines is not just about Pistons and Ignition timing. Its all about making sure all the little details are looked at and understood. Most have no clue. Most, its about selling parts to make sales, without even understanding what and why they are selling the parts in the first place.
So I'm wrong in my opinions. Then ask these vendors to supply the engineering data to prove their opinions. Ask them why a 12.00mm stud with over 120,000PSI tensile stretches under 30 LBs of boost. My bet is they cannot as they have never done any tests. My guess is they have never looked into the real reasons these engines lose Head gaskets under these conditions. Ask them the proper way to install these studs and most cannot tell you. Changing over from one Stud manufacturer to another makes absolutely no difference to the cause. ARP, A1, Tonken, JHB, and so on are all well known companies around the world that make fasteners for motorsports. Not one of these companies will tell you theirs are the best without first addressing all of the installation problems. The Studs shown in this post look like A1 Technologies to me. This company make very good products, as does ARP and the others I have mentioned.
Anyone who thinks that the reason their engine failed because of a ARP stud is not thinking. Anyone who sells a stud to this market place and thinks ARP studs are the reason for the failures has no clue about the problem.
There is a stud presently on the market sold by 3 companies, designed by one of them that addresses the real reason and is more about the application not the stud.
I expect I have inflamed many here with my comments without giving any data myself. I respect this and would feel the same way if I was to read this. However, I think it better than one of the companies that sells these studs should do this as I do not wish to make it look like I am bashing one company while promoting another.
For those that wish to think about this, maybe think about the strength of steel under tensile loading (120,000psi) verses Aluminium. Maybe this will give you some idea of what I am saying.
This is basic engine building 101. Nothing more.
Ask your tuner/ engine builder more about their background and history of building high performance engines etc. This should tell you if they understand the real issues here. Most have not alot or no experience in this field, and therefore cannot comprehend the fault, cause and obvious fix.
There is a huge difference between an engine builder and an engine assembler. Whats that saying, "monkey see, monkey do".
Todd
Congrats on the new addition to the EVOMS family! I do know what is required to run high boost in 996 turbos. I think I might have been the first turbo to break many barriers when it came to boost, displacement and horsepower. So once again I am asking on the comment made by Alex, did you guys run 30 lbs of boost using these studs? If so was it only the studs or did you guys have to do what I think we all have to do to run high boost which includes special head gaskets, O rings and few more items? If not, then WOW you guys are making magic! Please do not take this the wrong way, I am just curious to know the capabilities of these studs.
Congrat on the new baby
Robert
There is a stud presently on the market sold by 3 companies, designed by one of them that addresses the real reason and is more about the application not the stud.
There are MANY different factors to consider when building an engine and how a head stud will perform. 30 PSI of boost is not the only determining factor when it comes head sealing. Factors such as head flow, combustion, cylinder temperatures and other critical occurrences during an engines power producing process will also dictate how an engine can handle 30 PSI of pressure. If the engine is properly built, with good flow, these studs will allow enough head clamping pressure to hold 30 PSI of boost without the other head sealing procedures that you listed above.
Thanks for posting-my question is sort of on the same theme.
With some of your more public builds ( Joe,Kevin, Ben etc) what head sealing methods have been used eg O rings,EVOMS head gasket,12mm studs on each of these builds and others . What is the ideal direction in these types of builds--presuming no cost restrictions!
Thanks for posting-my question is sort of on the same theme.
With some of your more public builds ( Joe,Kevin, Ben etc) what head sealing methods have been used eg O rings,EVOMS head gasket,12mm studs on each of these builds and others . What is the ideal direction in these types of builds--presuming no cost restrictions!
Red, not sure about Ben, but I have just ARP and EVOMS gaskets. Joe and Tom have 12mm studs, EVO gaskets and no o rings. Joe's car has taken near 30 psi with no o rings. Mine has seen a Max of 26psi but has run flawlessly so far at 24 on the street....We will see how it holds up at the mile....
__________________ TX Mile Results: 2.8MPH Slower Than Topgun
To be clear about my post, I find nothing wrong with the new studs been offered, nor do I find anything wrong with the ARP studs. My issue is that the ARP studs are getting a bad wrap, when in fact the reason Head gaskets fail has nothing to do with the studs.
Installation procedures, inspection of all parts and a full understanding of the whole problem are the reasons and within lies the solution.
To be clear about my post, I find nothing wrong with the new studs been offered, nor do I find anything wrong with the ARP studs. My issue is that the ARP studs are getting a bad wrap, when in fact the reason Head gaskets fail has nothing to do with the studs.
Installation procedures, inspection of all parts and a full understanding of the whole problem are the reasons and within lies the solution.
For the benefit of the community as a whole....care to enlighten us?
__________________ TX Mile Results: 2.8MPH Slower Than Topgun
To be clear about my post, I find nothing wrong with the new studs been offered, nor do I find anything wrong with the ARP studs. My issue is that the ARP studs are getting a bad wrap, when in fact the reason Head gaskets fail has nothing to do with the studs.
Installation procedures, inspection of all parts and a full understanding of the whole problem are the reasons and within lies the solution.
hey m42racer we appreciate any insight/comments etc... But here's what we do know is that the ARP's don't always have the same metallurgy. Is that manufacturing? Is it QA? How come some cars with the same hardware (exact) have heads lifting at 1.1bar and others are fine at 1.3bar-1.5bar etc... Some cars are working better with the same build but using factory/stock head studs.... Begs the question. This is the case with multiple tuners around the country that we know of too My first TT had this very same issues at 1.35bar with ARPs... I'm sure Todd can fill us in more...
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To be clear about my post, I find nothing wrong with the new studs been offered, nor do I find anything wrong with the ARP studs. My issue is that the ARP studs are getting a bad wrap, when in fact the reason Head gaskets fail has nothing to do with the studs.
Installation procedures, inspection of all parts and a full understanding of the whole problem are the reasons and within lies the solution.
There are a many different reasons why head gaskets fail and some of the failures are related to the head stud design, quality of the material used and installation procedure. If what you are stating is true, then perhaps the OEM head studs can handle 1000 + wheel HP.
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My first TT had this very same issues at 1.35bar with ARPs... I'm sure Todd can fill us in more...
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