996 Turbo / GT2Turbo discussion on previous model 2000-2004 Porsche 911 Twin Turbo and 911 GT2. Sponsored By Vivid Racing
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I reject the concept that Price is always reflective of Quality.
I reject the assertion that if Vivid, evoms, etc, could make it cheaper they would automatically lower the price.
I am not saying these ebay hoses have any level of quality- good or bad- but assuming it is "Good" because it is "expensive" is a faulty (think Dinan) assumption.
Just like it is faulty to assume that if it is "Aftermarket" it must be "better than stock". I've always been interested in comparisons of NEW stock hoses to these aftermarket improvements....especially for otherwise stock or near-stock cars...
A
Could not agree more here.
Pricing power has been key in this market for a long time for a small handful of manufacturers/tuners, and with some parts, the ultimate power of being the only maker of a certain product. This is what I have seen in my year and a half of following this market.
But that has been changing as competitors enter and make decent, reliable alternatives and the price leaders have to re-evaluate. I feel it will continue for some things, some things not so much.
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Respectfully, for all the comments here, based on the original question, the one I would really take note of is from JeremyS, who actually purchased them and appears to be very happy. I would go for it based on the difference in cost and heed the comments on the good clamps that JeremyS recommends. I admire JeremyS for taking the plunge and "testing" out the competition for us. Do we really know for sure that AP are not made in China or Taiwan anyway, as most aftermarket parts are? I have an AP "F" Hose on my car and I am telling you IMHO (As an Engineer) it is no scream from a quality perspective. But I did get it at cost so I cannot complain. I am curious what the eBay "F" Hose Quality is like JeremyS?
With respect also to the US vendors, aftermarket parts could (in some cases) be a lot cheaper for these cars (Take Exhaust and headers as an example), but I have been in sales for over 25 years. They charge what the market can bear, NOT what an item is worth. Just seems these days with the economy the way it is they have not figured that into the equasion.
If I were in the market for these hoses. (I am running 1.1 - 1.3 bar on the stock hoses and there have been no issues) I would go for it, taking seriously the clamp issue.
__________________ Blue 2005 TT S - 200 Cell MaxFlo Exhaust, 1 BAR Wastegates, SofTronic Flash, Forge DVs, Custom Headers, Aquamist HFS-6, 3M Clear Bra
2006 Saturn Vue, Lotus Twin Turbo V8; ImpConcepts Mods, 550hp (Sold), Ferrari 328 GTS; Stock (Sold), Audi S4 Twin Turbo 350hp (Sold), Sunbeam Tiger V8 Stock (Sold) The rest don't fit! "Arguing with an Engineer is like rolling in the mud with a pig. Just don't forget the pig likes it!"
Last edited by ShokWaveRider; 10-10-2009 at 05:07 AM.
The F hose fit well, with no trimming required. It's quite solid.
Looks Good! Better Clamps than AP Provide Also, I get mine from West Marine too. I may get the kit and replace my AP Hose with that one too. Then sell the AP one. I actually prefer the look without the white "AP" stamped on the side.
Did you have to remove the Intercoolers to replace the pressure hoses?
__________________ Blue 2005 TT S - 200 Cell MaxFlo Exhaust, 1 BAR Wastegates, SofTronic Flash, Forge DVs, Custom Headers, Aquamist HFS-6, 3M Clear Bra
2006 Saturn Vue, Lotus Twin Turbo V8; ImpConcepts Mods, 550hp (Sold), Ferrari 328 GTS; Stock (Sold), Audi S4 Twin Turbo 350hp (Sold), Sunbeam Tiger V8 Stock (Sold) The rest don't fit! "Arguing with an Engineer is like rolling in the mud with a pig. Just don't forget the pig likes it!"
Last edited by ShokWaveRider; 10-12-2009 at 07:51 AM.
You dont have to remove the intercoolers to replace any hoses. You do need to remove the bumper to make sure the hose from the y-pipe locks into place in the intercooler though.
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2002 Seal Grey Turbo - Stage 2!!!
Did you have to remove the Intercoolers to replace the pressure hoses?
Don't have to remove the intercoolers, but, as ssmugen stated, you have to pull the bumper. It is a tight fit getting a hose clamp between the IC and the hole in the body that the hose passes through on its way to the Y-pipe.
Don't have to remove the intercoolers, but, as ssmugen stated, you have to pull the bumper. It is a tight fit getting a hose clamp between the IC and the hole in the body that the hose passes through on its way to the Y-pipe.
I installed mine without removing the rear bumper. Just jacked up one side at a time. I replaced my bottom hoses back to stock after both at 1.2 bar. Could have been a bad batch. The F hose very rigid and no problems after 3000 miles. I left the top ones on because they seem to be holding well and look great. Mine are American made and top quality silicone hoses.
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With respect also to the US vendors, aftermarket parts could (in some cases) be a lot cheaper for these cars (Take Exhaust and headers as an example), but I have been in sales for over 25 years. You charge what the market can bear, NOT what an item is worth.
Absofrickinglutely correct.
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I installed mine without removing the rear bumper. Just jacked up one side at a time. I replaced my bottom hoses back to stock after both at 1.2 bar. Could have been a bad batch. The F hose very rigid and no problems after 3000 miles. I left the top ones on because they seem to be holding well and look great. Mine are American made and top quality silicone hoses.
How much did you pay for these top quality American made silicone hoses? What brand are they?
When we mentioned taking the bumper off we were referring to clipping in the hose connecting the Y pipe to intercooler. That hose is very difficult to clip w/o taking the bumper off, i've done it and its a PITA.
The hoses hanging off the intercooler to the turbo can be swapped by only jacking up either side of the car.
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2002 Seal Grey Turbo - Stage 2!!!
The F hose fit well, with no trimming required. It's quite solid.
Ah now this answered the questions I've had about these hoses. So the hose is a normal ended silicone hose with a machined aluminum piece to fit the stock fitting and then a normal clamp to secure it? Do the SAMCO replacement hoses work the same way - with clamps? If so, and if these are molded pretty well, then I'd use these if there were colors other than blue
Any chance T-bolt clamps could be used? I've not looked at how tight things are underneath and T-bolt have to be bought pretty close to the correct size to work but I've had excellent success with them in the past. NAPA, believe it or not, sells GOOD T-bolt in stainless for CHEAP. I had HORRIBLE issues blowing hoses on my Supra and two things fixed it - T-bolt clamps and cleaning the insides of the hose mating surfaces with methanol. Once you remove ALL grease silicone becomes so sticky it's not funny. Removing them became the real problem after I started doing it right :-) That vendor doesn't seem to have any for sale now though, just 997 hoses in that bright blue. Another vendor has a near identical item for over $400, it must be better! ;-)
Since it seems the OEM hoses can hold fine what exactly fails about them? Is it simply the ends leaking?
You are correct - it's a machined aluminum piece that the hose slips over and is then clamped. There's not enough room for T-bolt clamps though. The flanges are too narrow, but they have a big lip that makes for good positive retention. I have plenty experience with 1.6+ bar on other cars, and have 0 concern about these blowing off. Just keep things clean like you mentioned, and get good clamps (I like ABA) and don't worry about it.
I did see a pic finally of a SAMCO hose and saw that yeah it uses clamps so that helped! So long as the surfaces are clean and sticky it ought to be good, shame the flanges aren't wider.
I agree, the boost these cars run is kinda' low from what I'm used to - at least so far but it seems to be increasing as people find out the motors aren't quite as fragile as first thought. Kinda' like the Supras ;-)
Anyway, these cheaper hoses actually look decent to me and it would be nice to hear from others running them. The SAMCO stuff is top notch but geez they're expensive! However I'm hoping my boost hoses are fine so I can skip worrying about which ones to get altogether.
The reinforcement material is what makes it strong and less prone to pressure expansion. Also you have to take into account temp., pressure over time. All the hoses mentioned here have polyester or nylon reinforcement. The more material used, the lower the quality of the silicone. And yes, I do own a silicone company.
I've never liked the way Porsche connects all of their turbo tubing to the ic. Back in 02, I kept having a problem with a hose popping off of a GT2 that had a bunch of power mods.
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996TT - Prepping for the track
sorry a little off topic
steve harris the shot of your 996tt rear, is sick.... nice shot....
also earlier mention in the beginning of the thread, is that the piece came from china, i wouldn't recommend anything from there to be put in my car.
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i pod inter-grader, chrome tips, 3M bra, H.R.E C97's 19" 8.5F, 11.5R rear with michelin ps2. (P.C.A member)
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Then sell the AP one. I actually prefer the look without the white "AP" stamped on the side.
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