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Toluene as a gas additive

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Old 07-24-2010, 04:41 PM
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Toluene as a gas additive

Supposedly adding toluene to a tank cam raise the octane. 1 gallon should bump gas by at least 1 full octane rating without the cost of race gas. Toluene is rated at 114 octane so 1 gallon added to 17 gallons of 91 = 91*17 + 114*1 / 18 = 92.27 octane. Here is an oft referenced article: http://elektro.com/~audi/audi/toluene.html

2 gallons would be 93.42. Don't know if that much is safe.... Makes me envy you fools with 93 at the pump!!!!!

I should add that I didn't do this but it was recommended by my tuner. The question is it safe?
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Old 07-24-2010, 04:58 PM
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I read a few topics on this before on various car forums and in the end didn't go this route as a substitute but it sure would be cool if you could prove it wasn't harmful and only helped increase octane.... I believe toluene is pretty cheap right?
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Old 07-24-2010, 05:02 PM
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Supposed to be cheap. It was like $16 by the single gallon can at this particular paint store (not really cheap). Of course you can get similar results at these prices by mixing 100 or 104 octane gas. Ideally if it's safe would cost much less. This place has 5 gallons of Sunoco 104 delivered for $66.95 http://www.shop.speedunlimited.com/default.aspx?
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Old 07-24-2010, 06:44 PM
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I pay $66 for 5 gallons of VP 109 in HB. I would not run paint thinner in my car. Seems like a lot to spend for 1 octane boost. Get the real stuff..... VP Racing Fuel. I just added 10 gallons yesterday and went on two runs down PCH in Orange County. Lots of fun. Going tomorrow too. Can meet at Crystal Cove of any one is interested in a PCH drive.

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Old 07-24-2010, 07:09 PM
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It is completely safe to run toluene! I ran it for years in my high compression 13:5:1 type r motor. I would buy it in drums and it worked out to be cheaper than race gas. I cant recall the place where I was buying it, but I will do some research and try to find the name. They used to run 100% toluene in tiny 1.3 ltr race motors running insane amounts of boost.
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Old 07-24-2010, 11:12 PM
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Where do you get this? I'm hoping there is a place near me in the San Fernando valley. $66 out the door?

Octane simply miltiplies by volume, so say 5 gallons of 91 + 5 gallons of 109 = 10 gallons of 100 octane. $3 for 91 + $13 for 109 averages out to $8/per gallon. Not really a savings.

The question is can you trust 100 octane from the pump to be fresh?

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Originally Posted by robertp View Post
I pay $66 for 5 gallons of VP 109 in HB. I would not run paint thinner in my car. Seems like a lot to spend for 1 octane boost. Get the real stuff..... VP Racing Fuel. I just added 10 gallons yesterday and went on two runs down PCH in Orange County. Lots of fun. Going tomorrow too. Can meet at Crystal Cove of any one is interested in a PCH drive.
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Old 07-25-2010, 02:55 AM
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I did some searching, the place is called tri-city paint I believe on miramar rd in san diego, ca. I was buying this back when I was 22-23 so the prices could definitely have adjusted since then...
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Old 07-25-2010, 08:22 AM
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I get the VP 109 at Ace Auto in Huntington Beach. It is on Adams and Magnolia. Bruce is the owner so tell him Robert sent you and he will hook you up.
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Old 07-25-2010, 08:28 AM
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[quote=ari;2920947]Where do you get this? I'm hoping there is a place near me in the San Fernando valley. $66 out the door?

Octane simply miltiplies by volume, so say 5 gallons of 91 + 5 gallons of 109 = 10 gallons of 100 octane. $3 for 91 + $13 for 109 averages out to $8/per gallon. Not really a savings.

The question is can you trust 100 octane from the pump to be fresh?[/quote]

I agree. While I spray 100% meth with my pump, which is an advantage over plain pump, I STILL HAVE plain pump gas and am only as good as where I get my pump gas from. ANYTHING that pumps from a tank in the ground can get contaminated by water etc...If you want a consistant, SAFE fuel, pour it into your car from a can, period.
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Old 07-25-2010, 08:46 AM
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Given the volume of 91 being pumped in general, I'm betting it's more fresh than pump 100
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Old 07-25-2010, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ari View Post
Given the volume of 91 being pumped in general, I'm betting it's more fresh than pump 100

Hard to aruge that logic and the same can be said for 93 here, although I do find myself with a crappy tank once in a while. The fact remains that any additive, be it Toluene, methanol injection or canned ontane booster from pep boys, it's not as good as fuel out of a can, as ANY pump has the potential to be bad. Remember, it can be delivered to the gas station bad too... I'm actually considering going to a MS109 only plan...
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Old 07-25-2010, 09:39 AM
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I don't know about this Toluene, but I remembered watching a either Top Gear or Fifth Gear show testing with a few different top additives. The tests were no performance enhancement.
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Old 07-25-2010, 10:39 AM
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I also like going the safe route using VP 109 only (at 1.2 bar).

I have been using it now for over three years covering around 5500 miles.

Change the oil, oil filter and air filter every 6 months or 1000 miles and the car will perform at it's peek potential every time I ask her too.

I also put a fan on the rear of the car when I park her in the garage. a habbit from racing and having air colled P-cars.

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Old 07-25-2010, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ttboost View Post
Hard to aruge that logic and the same can be said for 93 here, although I do find myself with a crappy tank once in a while. The fact remains that any additive, be it Toluene, methanol injection or canned ontane booster from pep boys, it's not as good as fuel out of a can, as ANY pump has the potential to be bad. Remember, it can be delivered to the gas station bad too... I'm actually considering going to a MS109 only plan...
I think it would be a good move to switch to ms109. Methanol is very hygroscopic. It readlily absorbs water from the atmosphere and with water there is always a chance of corrosion, albeit small in your case. MS109 contains MTBE which arguably is just as good if not better blending additive than toluene. I believe ms109 also has xylenes rather than toluene. Certain xylenes have motor octane ratings 10 point higher than toluene. Basically, mixing in ms109 or toluene with pump gas really isn't going to do a whole lot for you. You need to run straight ms109 with the proper tune.
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Old 07-25-2010, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TTdude View Post
I think it would be a good move to switch to ms109. Methanol is very hygroscopic. It readlily absorbs water from the atmosphere and with water there is always a chance of corrosion, albeit small in your case. MS109 contains MTBE which arguably is just as good if not better blending additive than toluene. I believe ms109 also has xylenes rather than toluene. Certain xylenes have motor octane ratings 10 point higher than toluene. Basically, mixing in ms109 or toluene with pump gas really isn't going to do a whole lot for you. You need to run straight ms109 with the proper tune.
That's my plan, as soon as I'm done with musical houses...
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