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996 Turbo / GT2 Turbo discussion on previous model 2000-2005 Porsche 911 Twin Turbo and 911 GT2.
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Spare Tire Question

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  #1  
Old 03-06-2012, 11:48 PM
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Spare Tire Question

In my 964 I understood that the spare was part of the collision/crumple design of the front end.
However, I was wondering if this design still applies to 996's? I don't ever plan on using the spare (I'll always have the car towed) and thought about just leaving the spare out of the trunk.
I understand that 997tt don't even have a spare from the factory.
Anyone know???
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Old 03-07-2012, 12:15 PM
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yes, it's part of the design for collision for 996 also. i think only RWD 996 had spares. The AWD models including turbos don't due to smaller front trunks.

997 no more spares across the board.
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Old 03-07-2012, 12:19 PM
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It cannot be required. Many 996 models have no spare [my 6-2 for example].

You live in a rather confined area. As long as you have cellular coverage anywhere you may drive, that sounds like a winner. You DO want to be certain of that. Nothing worse than being out in nowhere and getting a flat AND then discovering you cannot contact anyone. I have heard of people getting discouraged and selling their cars after one too many incidents. BTW, I made up a spare/jack setup for my 6-2 so that will never happen. Unless you really need the extra room I would keep it there. You won't ever need it....unless you leave it at home. ;->

JR
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Old 03-07-2012, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djantlive View Post
yes, it's part of the design for collision for 996 also. i think only RWD 996 had spares. The AWD models including turbos don't due to smaller front trunks.

997 no more spares across the board.
My 02 TT has a spare and I've been advised to leave it in.
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Old 03-07-2012, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by diveganesh View Post
My 02 TT has a spare and I've been advised to leave it in.
My '03 TT also has a spare. I leave it in there in case I need a spare , and the extra weight up front probably helps too.
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Old 03-07-2012, 01:51 PM
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I believe the 996 TT lost the spare in 2005 and both years of the GT3 did without. I know my 2005 GT3 never had one.

Cheers
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Old 03-07-2012, 05:58 PM
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Gents, I believe that we are talking about two different things. Rennwerkes brought it up relating to the spare being a basic design/safety function in the 964 and wondered if this were the same for the 996s.

My response that it could not be was based on our esteemed NTSA [as well as having every bit of Factory data concerning the 6-2 I could get.]. They regulate pretty much everything and that is why all USA rwd 996s have small gas tanks. The only way Porsche could have changed anything affecting crash worthiness would be to have it retested. None of the GT2/3s had spares. Had it been part of the safety package, they would have been retained or they would have had to recertify [crash] them.

I am pretty sure that jpeytonii is correct and all of the 2005 cars only had the emergency inflator and bottle of goop. That leaves plenty of 996s with spares and that was how I sourced my particular spare tire/jack setup for my 6-2.

Bruce Anderson has discussed this situation in Excellence. Adrian Streather devoted space to this in his excellent book "Porsche 996, The Essentail Companion". In fact, if you look at a copy you will see the solution I came up with.

Last from me... if you have a spare... you really DO need to take it and your kit out and do a trial fitting of that spare. It won't clear a PCCB front caliper without a small spacer..at least not on my 6-2. It also is something you want to have figured out prior to ever needing it. Also, if you lose a rear tire, you have to mount the spare on the front, THEN move the front to the rear [unless you need to drive an extremely short distance]. This is a real PIA job. You also have to have a plan for what to do with that dead tire and wheel. This can be entertaining but may save you from a small disaster sometime. You know it will only happen at night, in the rain, and in a completely dark area. I also have towels, gloves, etc packed with mine. This means that I will never, ever need mine! If this sounds like a silly waste of time, reconsider it the next time you are way out in some deserted back road out of cellular range.

Happy trails
JR
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Old 03-07-2012, 07:15 PM
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JR - thanks for all the information.

From your statement I assume you sourced your spare from another car, correct? Just an FYI - the collapsible spares are different between cars with cast rotors and those with PCCB. They are different P/Ns and have different pressure requirements when put into use. Could be why you had the need of a spacer to clear your caliper. That or the difference in offset between the Turbo and GT2 front wheels.

Also Porsche frowns on using the spare with spacers for whatever that is worth.

Cheers
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Old 03-08-2012, 06:03 PM
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jpeytonii.. Thank you. Now my head is hurting!! Man, I study this stuff and think I have it figured out [and sometimes forget important things]... This is the first I have heard about different spares for the PCCB cars. Why, oh why, doesn't it surprise me tho? Over the decades I have realized that a huge amount of "facts' published by Porsche is no more valid than a lot of data from the F-car builders. It does keep it interesting tho.

My understanding has been: Standard Carrera use the alloy 16" wheel with a collapsable spare. This is great if it will clear your rotors.

Turbo and PCCB equipped cars have 17" alloy wheels with fully inflated tires.

2005 and later have the awful inept solution that you really shouldn't use... unless you are desperate. A lot of tire shops will refuse to work on tires that are loaded with goop. I don't blame them.

Again, this is the only info I have been able to verify. I would love to hear from anyone that has more info on this matter. I do know that the 16" setup won't clear the set of Big Reds I use on my older 930 which are smaller than my GT2 brakes. [I really wanted to use that so it would fit better. I ended up sourcing an identical setup as my GT2 but it sits up on top of the 930 gas tank instead of tucking neatly in the designated spot. I pack that dead space with spare bits, tools, etc. ]

My spare was sourced from eBay and is the ..what I thought was the only 17" option with the fully inflated tire. I just searched again but I cannot locate info on an additional spare wheel I do know that the GT2/3 require 41lb for the spare tire. BTW< I used a 5mm spacer. The spare wheel configuration allowed me to use the standard GT2 wheel bolts. Porsche tends to frown on using spacers, period. However, the ROW 996 GT3 comes WITH 5mm spacers all around. Screwed right into the mountings. So did my old 73 RS [rear only] back before they were worth anything. I still remember the tech guys at Wester Porsche in Monterey frowning on my use of factory type spacers on my 356 Speedster. I pointed out their new 73 RS prototype that was running the same thing from the Factory! Instant silence and much gashing of teeth. I appreciate liability concerns but sometimes I think Porsche is a bit too full of themselves. At the speeds The pace I would drive with that silly little spare installed I would be more concerned about being in everyone's way.

One last thing.. if you have PCCB.. make SURE that you have 2 of those long aluminum wheel supports that you NEED to screw into the carrier before you ever remove or replace a wheel. These are supposed to be in the tool kit. I have seen new cars missing these. These are vital to assuring that your wheel never bangs against the PCCB disc while you are installing/removing a wheel. Failure to do this could cost you a broken rotor $$$$!.
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Old 03-08-2012, 06:45 PM
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jpeytonii
JR, glad to help and thank you again. I am in the process of educating myself on the Turbo as I plan to purchase one in the coming months. The more information the better.

My information on the spares is completely contradictory to yours. The Turbo (and C4/C4S) have the collapsible spare and the regular Carrera has the full size spare. Near as I can tell this is due to the loss of trunk space cause by the AWD system on the TT/C4/C4S. I base my information from Streather's book (P. 95), the Porsche parts catalogs, and the TT owner's manual (available on RennTech.org if you don't know, great site for tech data). The owner's manual specifically discusses differences between the spares for PCCB and non-PCCB cars. The PCCB version has straps holding the tire to the rim while deflated.

I agree with your comment re the spacers, particularly in this situation, but wanted all the "factory" information out there. There is a Porsche approved spacer for the rear axle on the TT for a specific wheel fitment. This was the basis for their warning when using the spare.

Interesting that you mentioned Streather's statement that in the event of a flat on the rear tire the front tire should be moved to the rear and the spare used up front. This seems like common sense to me; however, I could not find any information in the owner's manual covering this. No mention whatsoever. Wonder where Streather is getting his information...

Last item - regarding the goop. Had a bad experience using the similar setup on my M5. The stuff would even flow into my tire and I had to get a tow. Ever since then I have carried a tire repair kit and jack in all my cars without a spare tire (which is almost all of them...). The tire repair kit allows you to repair a puncture with a rubber plug by hand and use the supplied compressor to re-inflate the tire. I have had to use it multiple times with great success. They are available at most auto parts stores.

Cheers

Duh, I just realized that is your picture at the bottom of P. 95. Well done!

Last edited by jpeytonii; 03-08-2012 at 06:49 PM.
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Old 03-10-2012, 05:27 PM
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Oh oh, here we go again.
-First comment, Adrian lives in Switzerland and things are different there. As hard as he may try to write a book at is universal, there are statements which do not apply to our reality. Example: he states explicitly that there is NO provision in the Owner's Manual for using a GT2 in winter. They ARE extreme cars and he waxes poetic about them. Please remember that Switzerland is a far colder climate than most of us experience. I have no problem believing that the home market manuals state that these cars are NOT to be used in the winter. My USA manual gives details on installing snow chains! I think it is nuts, but that is just part of the differences we encounter.
-2nd comment is that I can dig through the service manuals and may find better info, but my GT2 Owner's manual couldn't be more vague about this. They DO have a brief but well illustrated section on changing wheels with PCCBs, but do not discuss much about equipment, or lack of.

You need to understand that the GT2 sales in the US were extremely limited. To expect the Owner's Manual to be spot on, much less the factory Service Info book.. well, it just isn't gonna happen. There are a few very enthusiast types within the system that put a lot of their own time and effort into getting these cars produced and it is unrealistic to expect perfection. Just give us the cars! We will sort out the data over time. I have been pretty much a lifelong Porsche addict [with plenty of distractions from other cars]. Over on Early S we are still sorting out the differences between what the factory was stating about various early 911s vs what was actually being produced. I also own a 1970 930 factory light weight. It is a Swiss spec car. When my friend, who purchased it from the original owner, called me asking for information on cars like this I told him there was NO such animal and to only buy it on it's merit as a standard 930. He bought it. It was only after my brother was finishing the EPA/DOT work on the car in California that they started figuring out some of the many subtle details that made it unique. Porsche, like many other manufacturers, does a lot of things they do not openly discuss. Sometimes this reflects a hidden performance advantage, sometimes to quietly slip an interesting car into a "friend of the factory's" waiting hands. In some cases I think they are trying to avoid discussing a screw up. I love this stuff.

Adrian's book, page 95, notes that the Carrera and Targa have the fixed 17" wheel/itire combo.. BUT only states that the 16" collapsable spare is used in the C4 and C4S. No mention of the turbo or GT2/3 in this section, except on the sidebar "996 GT-2 and GT-3 models were delivered without spare wheels, but were supplied with the 'tyre mobility system' which consists of a can of tyre puncture sealant, an air compressor and tyre gauge." [mine had no gauge] Also, no mention that the spares were dropped altogether in MY 2005.

The C4S uses turbo brakes. 16" wheels will not clear. Period. Perhaps there is a European version using smaller Carrera brakes? I am not aware of this. Unfortunately, neither the Owner's Manual nor his book cover spares and turbos/GT2/3 so. There is also a failure to note that later cars have no spare at all. If you look at the "tires" section the GT2 isn't noted and he doesn't note the unique 8.5 + 12 x 18 wheels on the GT2 at all. [Surprising considering that Adrian loves, promotes, and owned a 6-2. But that is one aspect of writing a huge volume that covers ALL of the 996 line. Over 600 pages, folks. It IS a great book that you should own.]

I would LOVE it if all of these books/manuals had far better indexes. It is difficult to dig through all the information and very easy to miss data. ALL of these have errors.

Another volume worth owning is the Factory Service Information book for whichever Porsche you have. Early 911s, they were called Factory Service Info Technik. These also have errors, but have detailed information that you will never-ever find anywhere else! Just realize that they are written before the cars are in final production and many times do not reflect last minute changes. Sadly, Porsche no longer seems to be producing them. I was trying to find one to update me on the GT2 RS and the good dealers can't find anything. Sad. These Technik books are a must have for anyone interested in what makes their particular Porsche function. The 'net is loaded with bad information.

I hope that this might help blow away some of the clouds. I suspect I will be in my grave and some guys will still be trying to figure out more about this cars.

JR
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Old 03-11-2012, 08:24 PM
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Seems like we got our wires crossed. I am NOT trying to tell you what spare will work on your GT2. I don't know. I know you have spent a great deal of time finding a solution that works and I am glad you did. I am merely trying to clarify what spares came with which cars from the factory. I stand by statement based on information from Porsche:

Carrera/Targa - full size spare
TT/C4/C4S - collapsible spare (w/ diff P/N between PCCB and non-PCCB)
GT2/GT3 - no spare (mobility kit)

I have no idea of the wheel diameters are for these wheels. For all I know Streather's statements could be wrong (I agree with your statements about his book). Next time I look at a Turbo I'll bring my tape measure. Any Turbo owner's please chime in what type of spare is in your car and what size it is!

Cheers
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Old 03-11-2012, 08:24 PM
 
 
 
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911, 964, 996, 997, c4s, chains, europe, heavy, porche, porsche, spare, tire, tires, turbo, turbos


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