Shifting
#31
10-09-2014, 04:35 AM
I too have found the shifting and the clutch action on the 996 to be pretty damned awful! I've got an STi drivetrain in another car who's shifter action is night and day better. My Supra shifter likewise was way better and both have a reverse lockout!
I had come close to giving up on making it better. However I found that removing the clutch spring made the clutch action 100% better and I've not stalled the car since doing it vs stalling it every time I took it out. The next thing I found was that I had a B&M shifter in my car, it was complete junk. I could rattle the handle back and force noticeably and the throws were a bit long. I looked hard at the 997 SSK and other solutions but those are fairly costly and the Numeric shifter isn't much more, they've offered 6spd members a deal. After speaking to someone with CUP cables who had broken stock cables multiple times I'm also upgrading to Numeric cables. When done the shift action should be improved with only a limited NVH increase I hope. Noise, that's the last thing - my exhaust isn't stock and drones badly. I'm doing sound deadener with high hopes. If nothing I'll have the shift action solved and will solve the drone another way if I must. I've not swapped gear oil, I'm interested in hearing what works best and might venture to doing that too depending on how the shifter feels after upgrading, I've been told it can be stiff when cold.
Hope that helps! Ifmyoumwait a week or three my shifter and cables will hopefully be done and I too can describe the difference and effort needed to install.
I had come close to giving up on making it better. However I found that removing the clutch spring made the clutch action 100% better and I've not stalled the car since doing it vs stalling it every time I took it out. The next thing I found was that I had a B&M shifter in my car, it was complete junk. I could rattle the handle back and force noticeably and the throws were a bit long. I looked hard at the 997 SSK and other solutions but those are fairly costly and the Numeric shifter isn't much more, they've offered 6spd members a deal. After speaking to someone with CUP cables who had broken stock cables multiple times I'm also upgrading to Numeric cables. When done the shift action should be improved with only a limited NVH increase I hope. Noise, that's the last thing - my exhaust isn't stock and drones badly. I'm doing sound deadener with high hopes. If nothing I'll have the shift action solved and will solve the drone another way if I must. I've not swapped gear oil, I'm interested in hearing what works best and might venture to doing that too depending on how the shifter feels after upgrading, I've been told it can be stiff when cold.
Hope that helps! Ifmyoumwait a week or three my shifter and cables will hopefully be done and I too can describe the difference and effort needed to install.
The clutch spring has been brought up a couple times now, but that is one thing that has not been an issue on my car. The clutch is just fine, the effort not much more than my dd.
Are you planning on swapping out the shifter first and driving a bit to see how it feels before changing the cables?
Chris
#32
10-09-2014, 05:37 AM
The clutch spring pulls up on the clutch at right about the slip point. I'm not sure that I felt the effort was harder but finding the slip point properly was near I possible as the peddle would sort of pop up and cause the car to stall. It's hard to explain but it's possible yours has been removed. You can look under the dash to see, it'll be a small plastic canister attached to the clutch.
As for cables and shifter, I will likely replace both at the same time. I've got my console and entire rear interior pulled out right now so it'll be pretty easy to do. You only need to remove the console to do it but the screws are hidden pretty well. B&M has a pretty good PDF that describes how to remove it although most links are dead so just goto their site to find it, a big trick being to lay back the passenger seat to pull it and the one screw under the silly coin holder. Anyway, I figure I might as well do them both at the same since its already pulled apart, I'll do a custom Alcatraz shift boot while I'm at it. Having looked closely at my existing setup I see a great deal of slop at the connection points, it almost seems like there are bushings worn out our simply not installed. The throw is a little long IMO so rather than attempting to remove the slop I'm pulling it completely. Quite a few people have done just the Numeric shifter though and been pretty happy, I don't think any of the obvious slop I can see right now is from the cable ends. I'm replacing mine partly because I know these cables can break and I don't want to end up stranded somewhere because of it, the Numeric cables should be a good bit stronger.
As for cables and shifter, I will likely replace both at the same time. I've got my console and entire rear interior pulled out right now so it'll be pretty easy to do. You only need to remove the console to do it but the screws are hidden pretty well. B&M has a pretty good PDF that describes how to remove it although most links are dead so just goto their site to find it, a big trick being to lay back the passenger seat to pull it and the one screw under the silly coin holder. Anyway, I figure I might as well do them both at the same since its already pulled apart, I'll do a custom Alcatraz shift boot while I'm at it. Having looked closely at my existing setup I see a great deal of slop at the connection points, it almost seems like there are bushings worn out our simply not installed. The throw is a little long IMO so rather than attempting to remove the slop I'm pulling it completely. Quite a few people have done just the Numeric shifter though and been pretty happy, I don't think any of the obvious slop I can see right now is from the cable ends. I'm replacing mine partly because I know these cables can break and I don't want to end up stranded somewhere because of it, the Numeric cables should be a good bit stronger.
#33
10-09-2014, 05:40 AM
The clutch spring pulls up on the clutch at right about the slip point. I'm not sure that I felt the effort was harder but finding the slip point properly was near I possible as the peddle would sort of pop up and cause the car to stall. It's hard to explain but it's possible yours has been removed. You can look under the dash to see, it'll be a small plastic canister attached to the clutch.
As for cables and shifter, I will likely replace both at the same time. I've got my console and entire rear interior pulled out right now so it'll be pretty easy to do. You only need to remove the console to do it but the screws are hidden pretty well. B&M has a pretty good PDF that describes how to remove it although most links are dead so just goto their site to find it, a big trick being to lay back the passenger seat to pull it and the one screw under the silly coin holder. Anyway, I figure I might as well do them both at the same since its already pulled apart, I'll do a custom Alcatraz shift boot while I'm at it. Having looked closely at my existing setup I see a great deal of slop at the connection points, it almost seems like there are bushings worn out our simply not installed. The throw is a little long IMO so rather than attempting to remove the slop I'm pulling it completely. Quite a few people have done just the Numeric shifter though and been pretty happy, I don't think any of the obvious slop I can see right now is from the cable ends. I'm replacing mine partly because I know these cables can break and I don't want to end up stranded somewhere because of it, the Numeric cables should be a good bit stronger.
As for cables and shifter, I will likely replace both at the same time. I've got my console and entire rear interior pulled out right now so it'll be pretty easy to do. You only need to remove the console to do it but the screws are hidden pretty well. B&M has a pretty good PDF that describes how to remove it although most links are dead so just goto their site to find it, a big trick being to lay back the passenger seat to pull it and the one screw under the silly coin holder. Anyway, I figure I might as well do them both at the same since its already pulled apart, I'll do a custom Alcatraz shift boot while I'm at it. Having looked closely at my existing setup I see a great deal of slop at the connection points, it almost seems like there are bushings worn out our simply not installed. The throw is a little long IMO so rather than attempting to remove the slop I'm pulling it completely. Quite a few people have done just the Numeric shifter though and been pretty happy, I don't think any of the obvious slop I can see right now is from the cable ends. I'm replacing mine partly because I know these cables can break and I don't want to end up stranded somewhere because of it, the Numeric cables should be a good bit stronger.
#35
10-22-2014, 06:28 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Atlanta, GA
Age: 43
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I too have found the shifting and the clutch action on the 996 to be pretty damned awful! I've got an STi drivetrain in another car who's shifter action is night and day better. My Supra shifter likewise was way better and both have a reverse lockout!
I had come close to giving up on making it better. However I found that removing the clutch spring made the clutch action 100% better and I've not stalled the car since doing it vs stalling it every time I took it out. The next thing I found was that I had a B&M shifter in my car, it was complete junk. I could rattle the handle back and force noticeably and the throws were a bit long. I looked hard at the 997 SSK and other solutions but those are fairly costly and the Numeric shifter isn't much more, they've offered 6spd members a deal. After speaking to someone with CUP cables who had broken stock cables multiple times I'm also upgrading to Numeric cables. When done the shift action should be improved with only a limited NVH increase I hope. Noise, that's the last thing - my exhaust isn't stock and drones badly. I'm doing sound deadener with high hopes. If nothing I'll have the shift action solved and will solve the drone another way if I must. I've not swapped gear oil, I'm interested in hearing what works best and might venture to doing that too depending on how the shifter feels after upgrading, I've been told it can be stiff when cold.
Hope that helps! Ifmyoumwait a week or three my shifter and cables will hopefully be done and I too can describe the difference and effort needed to install.
I had come close to giving up on making it better. However I found that removing the clutch spring made the clutch action 100% better and I've not stalled the car since doing it vs stalling it every time I took it out. The next thing I found was that I had a B&M shifter in my car, it was complete junk. I could rattle the handle back and force noticeably and the throws were a bit long. I looked hard at the 997 SSK and other solutions but those are fairly costly and the Numeric shifter isn't much more, they've offered 6spd members a deal. After speaking to someone with CUP cables who had broken stock cables multiple times I'm also upgrading to Numeric cables. When done the shift action should be improved with only a limited NVH increase I hope. Noise, that's the last thing - my exhaust isn't stock and drones badly. I'm doing sound deadener with high hopes. If nothing I'll have the shift action solved and will solve the drone another way if I must. I've not swapped gear oil, I'm interested in hearing what works best and might venture to doing that too depending on how the shifter feels after upgrading, I've been told it can be stiff when cold.
Hope that helps! Ifmyoumwait a week or three my shifter and cables will hopefully be done and I too can describe the difference and effort needed to install.
Shifts smooth now. Even when cold.
#36
10-22-2014, 07:11 PM
^^ exactly! ..
umm, hello. these cars shift as well as any. the mods we all do are done because we follow the wisdom of those that came before. i have no problem with the stock setup ( when it works ) or i'd have switched out also to the "proper" gt2 slave delete. but i guess i just like buying accumulators lol.
there could never be a comparison btw the numeric and the 997ssk that will pass muster. i like my 997ssk just fine. i would LOVE the numeric.
anyone switching to cup/numeric cables on their street car, and hoping the nvh won't be added noise to your daily life? just hasn't heard em.
change the gear oil a lot ( more than porsche's 90k suggestion?! lol ) and all this stuff becomes internet fodder. car shifts like butter
umm, hello. these cars shift as well as any. the mods we all do are done because we follow the wisdom of those that came before. i have no problem with the stock setup ( when it works ) or i'd have switched out also to the "proper" gt2 slave delete. but i guess i just like buying accumulators lol.
there could never be a comparison btw the numeric and the 997ssk that will pass muster. i like my 997ssk just fine. i would LOVE the numeric.
anyone switching to cup/numeric cables on their street car, and hoping the nvh won't be added noise to your daily life? just hasn't heard em.
change the gear oil a lot ( more than porsche's 90k suggestion?! lol ) and all this stuff becomes internet fodder. car shifts like butter
Last edited by '02996ttx50; 10-22-2014 at 07:14 PM.
#37
10-23-2014, 02:03 AM
Too many reported failures on both the Numeric shifter and cables for my taste. PMNA 996Cup shifter and cables for me. Bullet proof race proven Porsche hardware... The one thing no one has mentioned is removing the heavy counter weights from the shift levers on the TT gearbox. The factory put those on the TT but not the GT3 which is one reason the shifting action feels more crisp on those cars. Another good upgrade if you have the gearbox apart is to install the shorter GT3 shift levers on the TT box. Voila, instant SSK..
Last edited by pwdrhound; 10-23-2014 at 02:13 AM.
#38
10-23-2014, 09:23 AM
Too many reported failures on both the Numeric shifter and cables for my taste. PMNA 996Cup shifter and cables for me. Bullet proof race proven Porsche hardware... The one thing no one has mentioned is removing the heavy counter weights from the shift levers on the TT gearbox. The factory put those on the TT but not the GT3 which is one reason the shifting action feels more crisp on those cars. Another good upgrade if you have the gearbox apart is to install the shorter GT3 shift levers on the TT box. Voila, instant SSK..
#39
10-23-2014, 02:26 PM
Several GT3 guys on reenlist had their Numeric shifter break thus ruining their track weekend ($$$). From what I recall, the shifter broke at the base but I think it's now been redesigned. Then you have the cable fiasco. Even though it may now be addressed, it's taken months and it doesn't inspire confidence. But that's just me. I'm sure it's a good product as many love it even though the reports are that the shifter/cable combo is loud as hell which is contrary to what they advertise. The Cup shifter/cable has minimal NVH and it would take a gorilla to break it... I'm a big OEM/PMNA kind of guy however. Just my $0.02.
#40
10-23-2014, 03:16 PM
I also dislike the shifting, I actually preferred the shifter in my base 02 boxster. I changed the transmission fluid and installed the 997 stock shifter and upgraded shift ****. My car came with an evoms shifter, but I hated it. It required too much effort, the 997 shifter was better but still a little too long. I wonder if I can adjust the numeric to somewhere in between.
#41
10-23-2014, 03:58 PM
I have been driving manual transmission cars for the best part of 40 years. When I first get into my '02 TT (30k miles with a B&M short shifter) after driving my Boxster for a while, I feel like a newb.
The shifting is quite heavy and notchy. Before purchasing my TT I have driven student TT's at DE's and never noticed them being difficult.
30k miles - and 12 years - is probably time for new trans fluid.
Is the Numeric shifter much better than the B&M?
The shifting is quite heavy and notchy. Before purchasing my TT I have driven student TT's at DE's and never noticed them being difficult.
30k miles - and 12 years - is probably time for new trans fluid.
Is the Numeric shifter much better than the B&M?
#42
10-23-2014, 11:12 PM
Issues with my shifting are NOT the fluid in the trans. Throws are long, shifter has movement side to side that doesn't engage gears, and the clutch had some weird springiness to it at the top right at the engagement point. The springiness was easiest to fix by dumping the silly spring that yanks the clutch UP, took me 25 mins tops. The crap shift feel though is going to be harder. I have a B&M lever in there now and IMO it's junk. If this is a shorter throw I'd really hate to see what stock was like! It doesn't appear worn but the slop in it is pretty awful. I have an STi swapped Impreza who's shifter feel is 200% better on mostly stock parts, the difference is disgusting. I don't feel much in the way of notchiness thankfully, my fluid should be pretty fresh.
How much better is the Numeric shifter and cables? I hope to know soon and will report back. I'll likely do the shifter first and then cables leaving the console off in between so I'll have a little more NVH from that.
As for issues with the shifter and cables - I've heard of some of the earlier model sticks breaking, there's a new design now. I have also seen a report of an early set of cables having broken, this too is supposed to be fixed. Since I know someone that has snapped multiple stock cables I'm not really too concerned about this and hope that the Numeric cables improve things over and above their shifter.
I got an email that everything was supposed to ship this past Tuesday, I've heard zippo since then so I have no idea what the status of my order is and have asked as of this evening....
How much better is the Numeric shifter and cables? I hope to know soon and will report back. I'll likely do the shifter first and then cables leaving the console off in between so I'll have a little more NVH from that.
As for issues with the shifter and cables - I've heard of some of the earlier model sticks breaking, there's a new design now. I have also seen a report of an early set of cables having broken, this too is supposed to be fixed. Since I know someone that has snapped multiple stock cables I'm not really too concerned about this and hope that the Numeric cables improve things over and above their shifter.
I got an email that everything was supposed to ship this past Tuesday, I've heard zippo since then so I have no idea what the status of my order is and have asked as of this evening....
#43
11-14-2014, 02:53 PM
I should've updated here as well. I received my cables and shifter last week. Thus far I've only installed the shifter and it's a work of art! Shifts are crisp, no weird thunk sound, and much but not quite all play has been removed. I suspect what's left is the transmission and or cables with play. It's good enough now that I may just hold the cables in reserve or wait until Spring.
Overall, very happy! Still have exhaust drone though despite an assload of sound insulation - time to make a change <sigh>
P.S. What I removed looks a great deal like the B&M part from their instructions but has zero marking on it. Bright blue anodized trunion, my stick was bent. The Numeric shifter has less throw but not so much less that it's night and day with what I removed. If you've got a B&M and it feels crappy switch to this. If it's notchy that could be a trans issue or fluid issue, mine simply had too much play in it for my tastes.
Overall, very happy! Still have exhaust drone though despite an assload of sound insulation - time to make a change <sigh>
P.S. What I removed looks a great deal like the B&M part from their instructions but has zero marking on it. Bright blue anodized trunion, my stick was bent. The Numeric shifter has less throw but not so much less that it's night and day with what I removed. If you've got a B&M and it feels crappy switch to this. If it's notchy that could be a trans issue or fluid issue, mine simply had too much play in it for my tastes.
Last edited by BLKMGK; 11-14-2014 at 02:55 PM.
#44
11-14-2014, 04:10 PM
^ it's great to hear of positive reviews of what might well be the best "feeling" shifter going and i may upgrade someday from the 997ssk but honestly it ain't broke lol.
but i will bet that the cables are going to add noise, with admission the word and sound of the noise are "subjective". i think they are going to add *whine*. whether that is to ones taste or not, is up to them. i'm curious to read what your take is on them both installed.
add: pwdrhounds suggestion to add gt3 forks on a rebuild is epic. wich i had known or thought to ask. great idea.
but i will bet that the cables are going to add noise, with admission the word and sound of the noise are "subjective". i think they are going to add *whine*. whether that is to ones taste or not, is up to them. i'm curious to read what your take is on them both installed.
add: pwdrhounds suggestion to add gt3 forks on a rebuild is epic. wich i had known or thought to ask. great idea.
#45
11-14-2014, 06:28 PM
Can you explain a little more about what spring you are talking about removing. Thanks
Issues with my shifting are NOT the fluid in the trans. Throws are long, shifter has movement side to side that doesn't engage gears, and the clutch had some weird springiness to it at the top right at the engagement point. The springiness was easiest to fix by dumping the silly spring that yanks the clutch UP, took me 25 mins tops. The crap shift feel though is going to be harder. I have a B&M lever in there now and IMO it's junk. If this is a shorter throw I'd really hate to see what stock was like! It doesn't appear worn but the slop in it is pretty awful. I have an STi swapped Impreza who's shifter feel is 200% better on mostly stock parts, the difference is disgusting. I don't feel much in the way of notchiness thankfully, my fluid should be pretty fresh.
How much better is the Numeric shifter and cables? I hope to know soon and will report back. I'll likely do the shifter first and then cables leaving the console off in between so I'll have a little more NVH from that.
As for issues with the shifter and cables - I've heard of some of the earlier model sticks breaking, there's a new design now. I have also seen a report of an early set of cables having broken, this too is supposed to be fixed. Since I know someone that has snapped multiple stock cables I'm not really too concerned about this and hope that the Numeric cables improve things over and above their shifter.
I got an email that everything was supposed to ship this past Tuesday, I've heard zippo since then so I have no idea what the status of my order is and have asked as of this evening....
How much better is the Numeric shifter and cables? I hope to know soon and will report back. I'll likely do the shifter first and then cables leaving the console off in between so I'll have a little more NVH from that.
As for issues with the shifter and cables - I've heard of some of the earlier model sticks breaking, there's a new design now. I have also seen a report of an early set of cables having broken, this too is supposed to be fixed. Since I know someone that has snapped multiple stock cables I'm not really too concerned about this and hope that the Numeric cables improve things over and above their shifter.
I got an email that everything was supposed to ship this past Tuesday, I've heard zippo since then so I have no idea what the status of my order is and have asked as of this evening....