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Hi everyone,
(long post- sorry) I really enjoy reading build threads and I thought I'd do one on my car to give back to the community. My project has actually already progressed quite a bit (see avatar pic), but I will start at the beginning and try to post regularly over the next couple of days (weeks?) till I've caught up.
This might be a somewhat long post as I want to explain the project and how I got here.
First off, a quick intro despite the fact that I've been posting here for a while. I am an expat living and working on the French/German border. I have been a Porsche nut all my life; my parents purchased an Audi when I was a kid and whenever they went to the dealer, I went along so I could hang out on the other side of the showroom . When I was 16, I popped into the local Porsche dealership to ask for a summer job doing anything. They had a great service director at the time who gave me a summer job as gopher. One thing lead to another and I ended up wrenching my way through college and law school at several different Porsche shops during every break, the last two in Munich. I do not consider myself an experienced technician by any means (I am way out of practice ), but I am well versed enough to handle just about anything as long as I do not have to do it for money because I am much too slow. I worked quite a bit with auto electrics/electronics in my time at these shops and have just recently re-entered the professional automotive world as part of a project to produce and distribute diagnostic systems and electronic accessories for my other automotive passion, Land Rover (gap-diagnostic.com). All of us involved with this project are having a great time - maybe we will move into the Porsche world someday
My Porsche love suffered a bit with the introduction of the 996. It wasn't the demise of air cooling or the fried egg lights that bummed me, it was the slab sides from front to rear. And this on the heels of the 993: one of the most curvy, gorgeous 911s ever built (I originally wanted to build a 993 GT2...). The 997GT3 brought me back into the fold and a wide body 996 (C4S) that passed me on the autobahn did the rest.
Since my original new-big-car-project plans revolved around building a 993GT2 replica, my thoughts around the 996/7tt platform were on a similar (silly) scale. I saw SMR's thread on building a 997 tt RSR and decided this was where I wanted to go - I even found a guy who had copied the RSR body parts and, I believe, supplied most of the people with replica RSR body parts on the market. I had also started searching in earnest for a 996/7 tt with (lots of) superficial body damage. Then I saw the pic below here on 6speed and I was instantly hooked.
A GT2 RS replica would not be nearly as silly as an RSR - especially cost-wise - and much more sane for the street/track day car I hoped to build. So I started searching for a 997tt to build on.
While searching, I also started looking up GT2 RS parts and stumbled across an ad from a guy not too far from Cologne who had similar feelings about the 7GT2 RS but, since he already owned a 6 tt and a solid set of tools, he decided to turn that into his 7GT2 RS I believe he realized that it was going to be much, much more work than he originally thought and, at some point decided to get out. In the meantime, though, he had taken his 996tt completely apart and purchased nearly an entire 997 tt / GT2 RS body in parts. I went up and visited with him - really nice guy - and more or less decided on the spot that I really wanted this project.
The fenders, quarters, decklid, doors, etc are not mounted to the car in the pics above, they are only zip-tied on or laying in place so it actually looks a bit more complete than it was.
It still took a good while before the actual purchase was made, but I ended up with a complete 996 tt (albeit in pieces) and a complete 997 tt / GT2 RS body with all OEM Porsche parts at a really good price. And the PO was happy to see that his project would be completed rather than parted out.
So I rented an enclosed trailer and picked up a lot of Porsche parts...
So the goal was (and still is) to take this large pile of parts and turn it into a good combination street / track day Porsche that is as close as possible to the original 997 GT2 RS in every aspect - maybe even better than the original in some.
I will see how quickly I can get the next segment up.
Looking forward to updates, big and exciting project!
I too was debating doing a 993GT2 full-build, (like my tag name lol) but the design/construction 'language' and performance envelope is so much better with the 996's...we made the right choice IMHO!
Cheers,
Rob
So the next stop was the body shop. Actually I didn't even drop the car at home. I just unpacked all the rest of the parts, continued to the body shop with the car and then returned the trailer. A PITA client got in the way, so rather than returning to the body shop the following morning, it was a couple of days before I got back to discuss how to continue. A minor delay - but this was to be par for the course with this project (this was fall 2014, BTW).
I had originally planned to have the car done by the end of winter 2015 and I was going to be doing work like modifying the fender flanges or aligning the body panels myself. This did not work out quite the way I had planned as whenever the guys at the body shop needed me to come in and do something I had no time. I actually ended up doing only about 1/3 of the work I'd thought.
When I finally got back to the body shop several days later, the first task was assessing the parts, scope of the job, and deciding how things were to be done. In his enthusiasm to convert his 996tt to a 7GT2 RS, the PO had purchased a complete front end consisting of 2 new OEM 997 fenders, trunk lid, used GT2 RS bumper cover, new OEM GT2 spoiler, GT2 RS grills and front flares, and (almost) all the duct work. For the rear it was similar: 2 new OEM 997tt quarters, a used GT2 decklid/spoiler (with a carbon lip - I believe this is RS only), a used GT2 RS bumper cover, and the 2 insanely expensive carbon exhaust surrounds/IC air exits. I'd researched all of this prior to negotiating a price for the car, so I knew what it was all worth. The 997tt parts are expensive as is, but the parts that are unique to the GT2 RS are expensive squared. The front grills alone - 3 bumper grills and the upper center rad air exit - are around €2000. And the 3 bumper grills are standard tt parts covered in carbon. At about 4-5x the price.
After purchasing all of this, the PO dismantled his 996tt and suddenly realized that nothing fits. The curve of the 996 doors does not fit to the 997 fenders or the quarters, the 997 fenders do not fit over the 996 fender flanges (parallel to the frunk), etc. So the PO cut down the 996 fender flanges and purchased 997 doors. The doors did not fit onto the 996 hinge-posts (on the A-pillar), so he purchased 2 997 A-pillar cut outs from a Porsche dismantler. Luckily he stopped work before cutting up the A-pillars on the 996tt. With an older car, even an older 911, it might have been possible to replace a section of the A-pillar without compromising the vehicle's integrity. Newer cars such as the 996/7 contain heat-treated steel in critical body components and cutting sections of the A-pillar would have definitely compromised the vehicles structural integrity. Not to mention the fact that the 997 doors are completely different than those of the 996. The 997 has no inner door structure anymore - just a gaping hole on the inside. Window regulators, etc are all mounted to a plastic support that bolts into the door. I am relatively @nal about how work is performed on my cars - it has to be OEM-like inside and out. I want an experienced mechanic (who might be unfamiliar with Porsches) to not realize that it did not come this way from the factory when he opens something up. And I wanted the windows to shut as they did originally. No wind noise a 280kph on the autobahn
So it took me and my body guy about 15 sec. to conclude that the 996 doors were staying and the 997 pieces were going to be adapted. This meant sourcing 996 fenders with good back sections and damage at the front as mine were pristine and worth too much to start slicing up. So I picked up 2 back sections of 996 fenders that were headed for the scrap bin from a dismantler for €50. One of the least expensive purchases I have made in this project... The last thing was to decide color, etc. I love red on a Porsche, but as I already have a guards red 911 and a guards red '71 Camaro, I had already decided this one would be Carrara white. Coincidentally, the PO had chosen this color too - and had given me a 1:43 Minichamps GT2 RS model to go with the car.
bravo! stevemfr. will be following with great interest. a bit surprised the PO wasn't a bit more diligent about the compatibility of 996 vs 7 body panels and what not, but it sounds like nothing is TOO daunting to achieve this enviable goal provided you have at your disposal some PRO help along the way!.. congrats, again, will be following with enormous interest. what a terrific and worthwhile project to undertake.
Fantastic thread and build. I am still amazed the PO did take apart his 6TT though. Was it damage in any way? I guess he started this when the 6TT value had struck rock bottom. Who would do this now - unless of course the car had been damaged.
Wow, now this is a project. So it's definitely not a bolt on affair. I guess those aftermarket conversion kits use custom 997-ish parts to make the partial conversion. Yours will be a full conversion, with oem parts...awesome!
Looking forward to seeing the process unfold. Very cool
Hi Guys,
I am glad this thread is finding interested readers. As I said, I love build threads. Probably comes from reading too much "Hot Rod" magazine as a kid. They always had multiple part "builds" spread out over several issues. LOL And I am def a hot-rodder at heart. That is why a GT3 or GT2 appeals to me much more than a Ferrari, Lambo, or even the CGT.
Rob - a 993 GT2 build still appeals to me. But the chassis and $/hp speak very strongly for the 996/7 platform. I agree - we def made the right choice.
Mark - meant to answer you in regard to a 996 to 7 conversion in greater detail. There is almost no panel on the 996 that is the same as a 997 - excepting possibly the roof. Even the rear glass is a new piece - as is the panel between the decklid and the rear window. I was talking with a couple of different people, and the speculation is that the tooling (body dies) were worn at the end of the 996 production. And Porsche went ahead and made new dies without regard to the details of old dies (they might have even done it on purpose to keep people from up- and back-dating 911s as everyone does with the air cooled cars. If this was the case, it was a mistake IMO).
But to make a conversion like this worthwhile, you'd have to find a donor car for around $20k. If you go all OEM parts on the conversion, you are looking at easily $30k+ parts and labor (it is easy to spend much more, too lol). This puts a completed car at around $60k total, you are def in 997tt territory. And then you still have a 996 - and a modified one to boot. If you do it because YOU want it, you have good connections to a body shop (really good prices!), and spend a long time sourcing the parts from wherever they become available at good prices, it might make sense. But I definitely would NOT do this to an undamaged car. A 996tt that was spun into a guardrail and smacked on all 4 corners without serious damage to the chassis would be a good starting point. They are around. But TBH, it is much easier and probably makes much more sense resale-wise to start with a 997tt.
VeryDisco - yes, the car was completely undamaged. I have all the 996 body parts save the LR quarter panel. He might have had some damage here and been dishonest to me, but there was def no damage underneath. And he made an honest impression. :-p
I think the PO just thought it was going to be much easier. He owns a repair /tuning shop for Ford, so he is not entirely unfamiliar with the work. But when he had a pile of 996 rubble next to a pile of very expensive new Porsche parts with a lot of work ahead to make one out of the two, he decided to get out. And I got a deal :-))
Gophaster - no def not bolt on. The aftermarket 996 to 997 conversion fenders are adapted to the 996 doors and sills. And if you ever see a pic of one with the trunk lid open, there is usually a large hump in the middle of the fender mounting flange where they made room for the 996 stiffening-box-section. Going all OEM is quite a bit of work - I will go into more detail in the coming posts. There are 2 further detailed threads here on 6spd on converting a 996 to 7. One of the 2 guys owns a body shop, and he put it best in his thread: it is always close but never an exact fit.
Love this thread. Love the detail you're going into to describe the process. In comic terms, it's your cars origin story. Bravo! I will be following in much interest.
Mark - meant to answer you in regard to a 996 to 7 conversion in greater detail. There is almost no panel on the 996 that is the same as a 997 - excepting possibly the roof. Even the rear glass is a new piece - as is the panel between the decklid and the rear window. I was talking with a couple of different people, and the speculation is that the tooling (body dies) were worn at the end of the 996 production. And Porsche went ahead and made new dies without regard to the details of old dies (they might have even done it on purpose to keep people from up- and back-dating 911s as everyone does with the air cooled cars. If this was the case, it was a mistake IMO).
But to make a conversion like this worthwhile, you'd have to find a donor car for around $20k. If you go all OEM parts on the conversion, you are looking at easily $30k+ parts and labor (it is easy to spend much more, too lol). This puts a completed car at around $60k total, you are def in 997tt territory. And then you still have a 996 - and a modified one to boot. If you do it because YOU want it, you have good connections to a body shop (really good prices!), and spend a long time sourcing the parts from wherever they become available at good prices, it might make sense. But I definitely would NOT do this to an undamaged car. A 996tt that was spun into a guardrail and smacked on all 4 corners without serious damage to the chassis would be a good starting point. They are around. But TBH, it is much easier and probably makes much more sense resale-wise to start with a 997tt.
.
^^^ just more reason my mouth is agape at the very prospect of this project, it's enormity and the depth of all that's involved!. it is literally out of this world. once completed, it will place you solidly in the pantheon of ( i'm not sure what this category is to be called!? ) but it will be filled with genius and innovators of the highest order. ye shall be as god's lol.
really man.. i cant wait to see this progress! godspeed sir.
LOL
Thanks guys. It's not that wild - shops all over the world do this kind of stuff and much more every day. Aside from a few smaller jobs, all I did was mange the project at this stage. http://www.carbuildindex.com/6755/gmg/
Originally Posted by clsund
Love this thread. Love the detail you're going into to describe the process. In comic terms, it's your cars origin story. Bravo! I will be following in much interest.
I have been pricing some of the parts I am still missing prior to final assembly. 85% of the GT2 RS parts came with the car (and I am hugely thankful for this every time I scan the PET and check prices). But the remaining 15% are bad enough.
I wanted to go with an original GT2 RS exhaust heat shield. 996/7tt side shields are $96 each (Auto Atlanta) and the center is $200. That's already not cheap for aluminum foil, but the GT2 RS pieces are... $427/ea for the sides and $1097 for the center piece.
8-0
So I will not be going with GT2 RS pieces - I've seen 997tt center shields for under €100 on eBay. I am going to see how that mates to my 996 side shields.
I was relieved to have nearly all the parts for the front bumper assy including the upper air exit grill for the center rad ($3800), the L&R front grills ($1945), and the center grill ($4637 and 57 cents).
I am only missing 4 bits: the GT2 RS center radiator support, the lower rad support bracket, a middle support for the chin spoiler, and a thin plastic frame that connects the radiator duct to the upper air exit grill.
I was most worried about the rad support, but this only costs $99 despite being a pretty complex plastic frame. The lower rad support bracket, on the other hand, is more or less just a flat piece of plastic about 30"x 3". It lists for $338.62. And the support for the chin spoiler, a 10"x2" mildly bent bit of aluminum
is supposed to cost $282.59. And the plastic frame for the center rad air exit
is supposed to be $593.22.
This is the same soft plastic that the ducts are made of - even on a regular Porsche it would not cost more than $35. But there is probably someone who lives not too far from me who spent all week making a mold for this bit - and they are only making around 1000 of these all together...
I just can not see shelling out nearly $1000 for a bit of aluminum stock and a plastic smile...
01-25-2016, 08:39 AM
. When I was 16, I popped into the local Porsche dealership to ask for a summer job doing anything. They had a great service director at the time who gave me a summer job as gopher. One thing lead to another and I ended up wrenching my way through college and law school at several different Porsche shops during every break, the last two in Munich. I do not consider myself an experienced technician by any means (I am way out of practice 
), but I am well versed enough to handle just about anything as long as I do not have to do it for money because I am much too slow. I worked quite a bit with auto electrics/electronics in my time at these shops and have just recently re-entered the professional automotive world as part of a project to produce and distribute diagnostic systems and electronic accessories for my other automotive passion, Land Rover (gap-diagnostic.com). All of us involved with this project are having a great time - maybe we will move into the Porsche world someday 
bravo
