996 Turbo / GT2Turbo discussion on previous model 2000-2004 Porsche 911 Twin Turbo and 911 GT2. Sponsored By Vivid Racing
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it is my understanding as well as from experiences shared by some of the members on this board that the AWD is one of the hardest system to get a good launch
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__________________ Kevin 6MT TPC Turbo Cayman
6MT 997S 'launch car' (sold on 6spd)
SMGIII Beast (sold on 6spd)
6MT 996TT (sold on 6spd)
SMGII M3 (sold)
Well I know I'm old now....I gave up my 930 (RWD, Andial ICs...) because it was a PIA to drive around. Of course this thing had a K27 turbo and talk about lag....but when it kicked in it was scarry fast. That is one of the reasons I went with the TT. Power with control all in a cab. No RWD for me (I think Porsche did a pretty good job engineering the AWD) not that matters to anyone. If I wanted RWD...I'g get a GT2.
__________________ Statman
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I dont know, all ihave to say is my GT2 being RWD is SCARY modified! 2nd and 3rd gear in this cold weather, the power is so smooth and hardly any lag and bam back end is whipping out in 2nd and 3rd, my turbo never ever did this being rwd and with TC off, and it was putting out very good power.
The difference between the 2 is beyond me, the Turbo with RWD conversion IMO is 100x safer then a GT2 LOL!
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02 RUF R-GT2 590+ Track Beast To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
I dont know, all ihave to say is my GT2 being RWD is SCARY modified! 2nd and 3rd gear in this cold weather, the power is so smooth and hardly any lag and bam back end is whipping out in 2nd and 3rd, my turbo never ever did this being rwd and with TC off, and it was putting out very good power.
The difference between the 2 is beyond me, the Turbo with RWD conversion IMO is 100x safer then a GT2 LOL!
I think the 996tt with RWD is a good compromise for those wanting a GT2 but not quite up to the task of a 500+ hp, RWD car with no traction control. I dont think I would be comfortable driving a GT2, too scary .
Thanks Rob. You have the entire front drive system removed or just disconnected?
I have the whole thing removed. I just went for it after martin's and others experience. I wanted the weight reduction. I love the idea of the car losing weight, stops faster, accelerates faster, turns more easily etc. I was surprised though at how light the front driveshaft and differential are. I havent weighed it all yet but Im guessing the front diff and driveshaft is only about 60 or 70 lbs. With the front axles, the total is probably 100 lbs or so. I think for those wanting to drive the car daily or those who have alot of wet conditions, just keep it AWD. I live in arizona where it doesnt rain too much and if it does, I am happy to leave it in the garage and drive my truck. The car handles more crisply now and the whole experience seems more serious and focused. Its good.
I think the 996tt with RWD is a good compromise for those wanting a GT2 but not quite up to the task of a 500+ hp, RWD car with no traction control. I dont think I would be comfortable driving a GT2, too scary .
Couldnt agree with you more, although this car is giving me the thrill of my ex m3 because its so in your face and raw, the 996TT is SO USEABLE under mostly any conditions!
I love both and need some good seat time in my GT2, next up is fully corner balancing and setting up my Moton's and then PS2's or Toyo RA1's, these Michelin PS1's SUCK!
Glad you like the conversion, it was one of the best upgrades for the turbo!
Martin
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02 RUF R-GT2 590+ Track Beast To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Someone still needs to explain to me how a RWD version of and AWD car is easier to launch, something that I can understand. It is historically known that AWD launches harder, especially on street tires. I would be willing to put money that 60' times are more consistant and faster on an AWD turbo than a RWD turbo. I need some concrete evidence to support a counter claim. I do agree to the rest of the advantages though. It may be only on street tires that AWD is better but I know for a fact that AWD is better for launching. Willing to test it out too........
The issue is that in order to get the front wheel drive to do any real work, you need to spin the rear tires (viscous coupling). Spinning the rear tires causes real bad wheel hop that is counterproductive (in both RWD and AWD).
The bottom line is that you have to get just the right start with little wheel spin (and no wheel hop). As such RWD allows more power to get to the ground due to less friction loss. The basic benefits of a RWD conversion.
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My latest dyno chart 1.2 BAR: To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
2002 X50. Water cooled Tial GT2860RS, EVO Clubsport Intercoolers, Speedtech Y-Pipe (red), Boost Hoses, 60 lb Injectors, LWFW, RS Clutch, Remus Exhaust, DVs, GIAC FLASH To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. , 997 TT Brakes, FVD PSS9s, H&R Rear Bar, 19" Champion RG19 Monolites (15mm spacers front and rear), rollled fenders, ROTtec CF Lip and rear window spoiler, Strosek Wing.
The issue is that in order to get the front wheel drive to do any real work, you need to spin the rear tires (viscous coupling). Spinning the rear tires causes real bad wheel hop that is counterproductive (in both RWD and AWD).
The bottom line is that you have to get just the right start with little wheel spin (and no wheel hop). As such RWD allows more power to get to the ground due to less friction loss. The basic benefits of a RWD conversion.
So the front tires dont have a good ratio of power being spread to them unless the rear tires lose traction? What causes oversteer then? I thought it was due to the front tires being powered and therefore giving less traction at the front. If it is the case that the front tires are only used during loss of rear traction, then it is useless..... well at least for my purposes.
What is the ratio of power anyways? Also has anyone removed and then replaced the AWD? Is it much harder to put back on that to take off.
My GT2 on high boost will break the rear wheels loose in virtually any and all conditions: traces of water, oil, gravel....giving it more than 70% throttle in the lower gears, more than 80% in third and matting it in fourth.
It is simply scary (albeit absolutely thrilling) to drive on high boost. To be honest, I spend 98% of my driving on low boost where it is still very very easy to loose control of this car.
That is why they are called Widowmakers.
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2002 Porsche GT2 with GT 30's Tuned by Protomotive. 60-130 Street Tire Champion Tx2K8 and Tx2K9.
2004 BMW Individual M3: BHS Supercharged Stage 2. 8.59 60-130
2009 Mercedes E350
2004 Porsche Cayenne TT.
The ratio is 5% front 95% rear. Porsche says that viscous coupling can transfer as much as 40% to the front, given spinning rear tires. But I am skeptical. Have you seen the videos of people doing donuts in the snow and ice? The front tires do not spin continuously and seem lurch on and off. The only way I can translate that is that they are not receiving significant or continuous torque.
My experience was that you didn't want to spin the tires due to bad wheel hop (which is really hard on parts). The car is definitely faster in RWD because you are getting that extra 5% to the rear wheels and don't have to spin all that mass at all times. The wheel hop is even worse with the stock suspension. The Pss9s seem to control it lot better, not sure if it's spring rates, dampening, or simply less travel. You can drive the car like a rear wheel drive and slide the rear all day even in AWD.
I believe a big reason GT2s spin the tires harder has to do with more camber. The tires are sitting on their edge (to optimize handling) and do not grip the pavement so well going straight. You can dial up the camber (with a GT2 spec alignment) on your TT and I bet you will notice a loss in straight line grip. I believe I was reading Sharky? having that issue with the Black Mamba back in the day when he was trying to set the record. Maybe Sharky can chime in here.
I understand it is easier to take off than to re-install AWD because you have to replace a bolt which comes apart in two pieces. Given those parts I think it's pretty elemental. I am happy enough with the drive shaft removed, but sometimes wonder what the effect of the front diff is on the steering. No matter how loosely, they are still connected..
Quote:
Originally Posted by heavychevy
So the front tires dont have a good ratio of power being spread to them unless the rear tires lose traction? What causes oversteer then? I thought it was due to the front tires being powered and therefore giving less traction at the front. If it is the case that the front tires are only used during loss of rear traction, then it is useless..... well at least for my purposes.
What is the ratio of power anyways? Also has anyone removed and then replaced the AWD? Is it much harder to put back on that to take off.
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My latest dyno chart 1.2 BAR: To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
2002 X50. Water cooled Tial GT2860RS, EVO Clubsport Intercoolers, Speedtech Y-Pipe (red), Boost Hoses, 60 lb Injectors, LWFW, RS Clutch, Remus Exhaust, DVs, GIAC FLASH To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. , 997 TT Brakes, FVD PSS9s, H&R Rear Bar, 19" Champion RG19 Monolites (15mm spacers front and rear), rollled fenders, ROTtec CF Lip and rear window spoiler, Strosek Wing.
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If it is the case that the front tires are only used during loss of rear traction, then it is useless..... well at least for my purposes.
Linear Mode
