996 N/A Software Upgrade Question

[Rush996]

Hello All. I'm about to install a small bundle of mods I've accumulated for my 02 996 C2 (BMC filter, RSS plenum, SPEC lw flywheel and st2 clutch, Cross exhaust, custom e.l headers) I've been reading up on some of the programming options, particularly the Softronic, Upsolute and Revo. Has any one had the opportunity to actually tune their car on the dyno using any of these systems instead of relying on a program that was developed on another car ? I don't know how specific the 996 programming gets, but it would seem to me different cars react to mods in different ways. I was hoping to find a facility in Alabama or Georgia that could actually tune real time on a chassis dyno.
Any thoughts appreciated.!

[Malakas]

Check out APR (www.goapr.com)... they are (used to be anyway) based near Auburn, Alabama. I had a chip of theirs in my old GTI - it was a great tune. Plus, while it was being installed I got a tour of their facility - they had some awesome toys!

I also remember something about Revo "stealing" APR's serial port programming technology - or someone left APR and took the tech to REVO... or whatever... dont really remember - but they are both quality products.

Hey post some pics of that Cross exhaust - what made you decide on that one?

[angldrkns9]

i cannot say about Revo and those other brands
but look into EVOMS, I beleive they have a new type of software for our cars that comes with a 10 year gaurantee and free future updates

[YoopsRacing]

good question -
any S.E. 996 owners have any real world ECU software upgrade experience or recommendations? From any of the suppliers

[1 PGH 1]

I added the plenum and the Softronic tune this spring (you can buy Softronic from Dan at Vivid or direct from Scott). I have an '02 with the 3.6 l, 6-spd.

I haven't dynoed the car, but I can tell you that the car pulls much stronger with this combo (I had them installed at the same time so can't tell you which does what). Using the butt dyno, the car noticably pushes you back in the seat, much more than before. There are no "dead" spots on the torque curve and the car also breathes and revs much more freely. Even my bride noticed the difference her first time back in the car ... "Awright Pete, what did you do to your car this time?" ... oh nothing dear

I also installed PSS9's (Dan at Vivid shipped a set to me in Canada at a great price, thanks Dan!), X74 sways and spacers (Damon at Tire Rack). The car just sticks to the road now - night and day over stock. When you are getting on the gas coming out of a corner the extra grunt from the Softronic/plenum combo is a perfect compliment to the suspension upgrade.

I am very happy with the Softronic/plenum combo and would recommend it to you.

I recently installed the Schnell air intake (thanks Dan, Vivid) and k&n filter for some extra music in the car.

[Rush996]

Good info. I'm still curious to know whether any of the outlets can tune with these options on the dyno, rather than just download a program. Malakas, I chose the Cross exhaust because I got a line on the Titanium verison cheap..I will post pics as soon as I can and an overall weight..the thing is stupid light.
I also have the Cross coilovers to install at the same time. I have another car that has the JIC coilovers (same system) and they're great.
David, since you're in Cumming, maybe you could stop by Kinetic (on the way to Lake Lanier Islands) and see what they tune with...or call.

[p0rsch3]

love to see pics of the cross exhaust- titanium no less, that is hot!

The lightest, best sounding and most performance-enhancing exhaust I've found so far is from AfterHoursAutomotive in LA. (www.afterhoursautomotive.com) - 8.2lbs each, gave me +11hp and +10tq across the curve, and I had been running AP mufflers previously. Dyno charts etc on their site are from my 02 996 tiptronic.

I hear that Softronic is very good- you upload your car's ECU data to them and they send you back a flash file for your car.

[Denis GTPRO]

as a somewhat impartial to porsche software , From what i have seen, there isnt much to be had for HP on NA porsche. Some companies may CLAIM big gains, but the HIGHEST numbers i have ever seen on our dyno was about 10 hp and i was blown away by that. Average is about 6 hp. We have dynoed hundreds of porsches here and all software appears to do about the same thing. No ones is better than anyone elses, no large gains, nothing amazing. About 6-10 hp for $1000 bucks

[AsianImage]

Originally Posted by Denis GTPRO

as a somewhat impartial to porsche software , From what i have seen, there isnt much to be had for HP on NA porsche. Some companies may CLAIM big gains, but the HIGHEST numbers i have ever seen on our dyno was about 10 hp and i was blown away by that. Average is about 6 hp. We have dynoed hundreds of porsches here and all software appears to do about the same thing. No ones is better than anyone elses, no large gains, nothing amazing. About 6-10 hp for $1000 bucks

EXACTLY!!!! This is probably the most HONEST and STRAIGHT FORWARD post I have ever read. Kudos to you.

Yeah this has been argued over and over, NA Porsches are pretty much maxed out. If you had a TURBO that is different, those cars can be BEASTS when unleashed...but a NA car...just pretty much leave it alone...concentrate on suspension, some exh, wheels...and you are good to go. Unless you supercharge it...nothing will make truly significant gains.

[YoopsRacing]

Thanks for the reality check - I did not assume big HP numbers for any NA 996. I want to maximize my aftermkt goodies. (mufflers, Plenum, EVOMS intake)
I assume the ECU flash can remap/change torque curves...am I correct or not correct in this assumption?

thanks

[YoopsRacing]

Originally Posted by Rush996

Good info. I'm still curious to know whether any of the outlets can tune with these options on the dyno, rather than just download a program. Malakas, I chose the Cross exhaust because I got a line on the Titanium verison cheap..I will post pics as soon as I can and an overall weight..the thing is stupid light.
I also have the Cross coilovers to install at the same time. I have another car that has the JIC coilovers (same system) and they're great.
David, since you're in Cumming, maybe you could stop by Kinetic (on the way to Lake Lanier Islands) and see what they tune with...or call.

Kinetic uses Revo sw.

[Denis GTPRO]

SOFTWARE EXPLAINED
German cars are somewhat different from the japanese tuner car world and heres why.

1) companies for german/european cars DO NOT give the end user the ability to tuner their own cars NOR give them access to the files they changed.
2) companies for german european car companies do NOT TELL you what changes they have made to your ecu
3) there are no "piggy back" fuel timing computers for german/euro cars to ADD to your existing cars computer to make the changes to the signal. Actually i retract this statement,there are, but made by japanese companies.
4) pretty much ALL tunes give 6-10 hp. how do they do this ? Every car manufacturer leave roughly 5-12% margin for error in the tuning of their cars. when "flashed" tuners are basically shooting for 2 things,,,,,less fuel-more timing. Porsche has a VERY good knock control system. So many of the SMALLER tuners ramp the timing up ALOT and just let the knock control remove the harmful timing so they get MAX power. Other than that you can run about 13.2 : 1 a/f semi safely before the cat and thats it for power tuning on the NA porsches. I will tell you a secret that alot of the tuners do to make it SEEm like your getting a ton of power, buts its all an illusion. The TPS (throttle position sensor) is ran on voltage. Some tuners manipulate the signal vs throttle so when you step on the throttle, instead of being 20% it actually simulates the throttle being opened more like 40%. So it makes your car seem more responsive and much faster, but its truly not and merely and illusion. Just like a loud exhaust. Your going to think your car is faster just because your car sound "meaner". alot of the time, its just good marketing taking aim on well-to-do people who just dont know better.

I hope the euro market gets to the point the japanese tuner market is. Untimately giving the end-user the ability to change the tuner every time he makes a mod and giving access to the program to tune the car or at least view the changes . $1000 bucks for a ecu flash is rediculous in my opinion for 6 hp, especially since you cant view or change the program.im working on a piggy back, plug and play unit to change fuel and timing for porsche models and give the end user the ability to make changes themselves if they so desired. Im meeting much resistance with this however because that would kind of ruin 1000 dollar flashes and paying everytime you make a mods to change the tune. Instead of spending thousands upon thousands for mods for 15-20 hp, go forced induction .
my 2 cents ,keep the change

[p0rsch3]

Denis- very refreshing input. If you don't mind, can I ask what your background is and what experience you are speaking from?

+1 on a Vishnu-like piggyback unit, that would be hot. As far as "ruining" the $1k market for software flashes, well, everything is about progress right? All products evolve, and if things change towards becoming piggyback units that are tunable, I'll bet dimes to donuts the good software tuners will keep up and develop their own units. Progress is a good thing for the customer- I too think it is plain silly to charge $1k for a flash and upwards of $2k+ for a turbo flash, but then again I didn't spend my hard earned time and $ developing it either - So kudos the the tuner companies for getting the big coin while they can. Most customers seem pleased with results, so as long as folks are willing to spend the $1k it will probaly remain until that better something comes along. Capitalism at it's finest

For me, the biggest benefit that I'd like to have from an ECU flash is a more responsive e-gas pedal, where a "blip" is a blip and not an "oh wait I'll blip in a few..." I prefer a twitchy throttle whereas others may be ok with the lag.

Example, Dinan had a pretty trick setup for E46 cars with their revised throttle body (different throttle gear ratio on the butterfly), and matching stage II software. Perked that egas right up!

[Denis GTPRO]

Originally Posted by p0rsch3

Denis- very refreshing input. If you don't mind, can I ask what your background is and what experience you are speaking from?

+1 on a Vishnu-like piggyback unit, that would be hot. As far as "ruining" the $1k market for software flashes, well, everything is about progress right? All products evolve, and if things change towards becoming piggyback units that are tunable, I'll bet dimes to donuts the good software tuners will keep up and develop their own units. Progress is a good thing for the customer- I too think it is plain silly to charge $1k for a flash and upwards of $2k+ for a turbo flash, but then again I didn't spend my hard earned time and $ developing it either - So kudos the the tuner companies for getting the big coin while they can. Most customers seem pleased with results, so as long as folks are willing to spend the $1k it will probaly remain until that better something comes along. Capitalism at it's finest

For me, the biggest benefit that I'd like to have from an ECU flash is a more responsive e-gas pedal, where a "blip" is a blip and not an "oh wait I'll blip in a few..." I prefer a twitchy throttle whereas others may be ok with the lag.

Example, Dinan had a pretty trick setup for E46 cars with their revised throttle body (different throttle gear ratio on the butterfly), and matching stage II software. Perked that egas right up!

I am the manager at GTPRO performance tuning. I am AEM EMS certified and EFI 101 trained in standalone engine management and fuel injection theory. I have an MECP master certification and have 8 yrs in the professional performance industry. My shop is the offical testing facilty for IPD, european car magazine, and eurotuner. We hold serveral world records in japanese platforms and have moved on from there. I actually have an e46 in my shop im installing the dinan TB's on. As for the throttle, i understand. but there are CHEAPER ways to do what your talking about. http://www.blitz-performance.com/ind...index&cPath=79
I just get upset from my perspective of NEW companies coming in and offering the same product over and over ,,renamed and rebadged while making the same results. The european parts market is in somewhat of a box.
there is VERY little to choose from as far as parts are concerned, and instead of making NEW parts for the car, everyone is trying to make the same parts and just try and steal a portion of that market. Such as exhausts. There are as many porsche exhausts on the market as a honda civic. why not work on intake manifolds, ignition amplification, camshafts, etc?

[Denis GTPRO]

Originally Posted by Malakas

Check out APR (www.goapr.com)... they are (used to be anyway) based near Auburn, Alabama. I had a chip of theirs in my old GTI - it was a great tune. Plus, while it was being installed I got a tour of their facility - they had some awesome toys!

I also remember something about Revo "stealing" APR's serial port programming technology - or someone left APR and took the tech to REVO... or whatever... dont really remember - but they are both quality products.

Hey post some pics of that Cross exhaust - what made you decide on that one?

I have played with the revo master software from RSS and seen it used. It actually is kinda wierd. You cant really tune with it much. It is basically setup in levels. It has stages that you highlight such as :
timing:
1) low
2) intermediate
3) high octane
4) race gas

fuel:
1)
2)
3)
4)

etc.
not very TUNABLE per mod . You simply click next to which item you want to select and then flash the information to the car which takes like 20 min. The softronics guy rebadges someone elses tunes. He himself does not tune. He has also got caught in some lies about HP gains on 6speed if im not mistaken with his dyno graphs. If you search im sure you with find the answer