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Built 996 M96 Engine for FI?

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  #16  
Old 12-07-2012, 03:16 AM
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Originally Posted by BiteEmNBeatEm
Hey stephan is it a 6266 turbo? if so what A/R exhaust housing are you using on that turbo? I read some where about your build that you changed the GT35 that comes std with the VR kit to the 62mm turbo. How did it differ on the dyno?

402rwhp w/ 368tq @4.5psi on a mustang is good on a stock bottom end.

I was looking at an FP HTA3788 (6466) or HTA3794 (6766) because they are there billet wheel, twin scroll, ball bearing turbos with the compressor housing for $1699
It has a Precision 6062 Series Turbo, however the Precision Turbo will not work on a Dry Sump System. Vivid has upgraded to the Modified Garrett system, they are swapping my turbo out to a Hybrid GT28/35 setup.

470hp moves pretty good in my car. I already have have major traction issues and do all-wheel drive burn outs. I need to get more rubber to the ground. I cant even imagine how quick yours will be, 500hp is the max I can pull before having to internally mod the engine. Ive driven a 996TT and my car would eat it alive. The TT may have a smoother power band, but over 3000 RPM when my boost builds, its literally a freight train of power to 6200+ RPM.

Good luck with you build and keep everyone updated with photos and videos.

I have several threads of 6speedonline under VR996CT and also have numerous videos on YouTube under "VR996CT".
 

Last edited by stephan_porsche; 12-07-2012 at 05:53 AM.
  #17  
Old 12-07-2012, 05:58 AM
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Although it's quite boring, my advice is to keep with OEM hardware. Now when 996 turbo guys update their cars K16s and K24s are (cheaply) available. A pair of std K16s is good for 490 crankhp, with updated compressors for 600 crankhp. Also turbos's exhaust manifolds are available for a dime and while they might not be a direct fit, at least turbine end flanges can be used.
Even a NB car has 3 out of 4 IC cage attachment points and the cage itself can be used with a small modification inside NB's rear bumper cover. The cover itself can be modified for IC vent, or a turbo imitation cover can be used. RUF style IC feed vents can be cut to rear fenders. NB's chassis also has pressed "openings" for IC to TB piping, they just have to be cut open, thus OEM piping and Y-pipe can again be used. Even 997's parts, depending on the ECU and dump valve solutions.

I also recommend to go directly to twin turbos, independent of turbos planned to be used. (It's in the end more expensive to change setup every now and then than just wait and gather money for few months for an initially more expensive parts.) And forget water to air IC, unless you use the car only for drag racing or cruising. It only can keep the system cool for a very limited time when pushed hard. Ask for a link if necessary...

I have a NB '00 Carrera with turbo's engine and gearbox. 997's VTG turbos, GT2's ICs and plenums and some other stuff...
 
  #18  
Old 12-07-2012, 12:33 PM
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Stephan, why does the precision 6062 turbo not work with our "intergrated dry sump" ? Where does the VR kit tap into the motor for the oil feed?

Pete, that car of yours must be a sleeper to eveyone thinking its just a NB. Which route did you go with the intercooler vents? The RUF style up top look pretty nice. Can you post some pics?
 
  #19  
Old 12-07-2012, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by BiteEmNBeatEm
Stephan, why does the precision 6062 turbo not work with our "intergrated dry sump" ? Where does the VR kit tap into the motor for the oil feed?

Pete, that car of yours must be a sleeper to eveyone thinking its just a NB. Which route did you go with the intercooler vents? The RUF style up top look pretty nice. Can you post some pics?
The Precision Turbo uses a Dynamic Seal which allows oil seepage, most Turbos use a Static Seal which doesn't allow oil seepage. You cant use a Dynamic Seal on a Dry Sump System. The oil pressure is to great, it pushes oil straight through the turbo, smokes and heavy oil residue in the tailpipes. A static seal turbo wont do that.
 
  #20  
Old 12-07-2012, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by BiteEmNBeatEm

Pete, that car of yours must be a sleeper to eveyone thinking its just a NB. Which route did you go with the intercooler vents? The RUF style up top look pretty nice. Can you post some pics?
Well mine's not exactly a sleeper...it came out from the factory with an aerokit and is now equipped with full cage and some orange decorations...
 
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  #21  
Old 12-07-2012, 05:09 PM
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Dang we all got silver 996 NB turbos... lol

What ic scoop is that Pete?
 
  #22  
Old 12-07-2012, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by pete95zhn
Although it's quite boring, my advice is to keep with OEM hardware. Now when 996 turbo guys update their cars K16s and K24s are (cheaply) available. A pair of std K16s is good for 490 crankhp, with updated compressors for 600 crankhp. Also turbos's exhaust manifolds are available for a dime and while they might not be a direct fit, at least turbine end flanges can be used.
Even a NB car has 3 out of 4 IC cage attachment points and the cage itself can be used with a small modification inside NB's rear bumper cover. The cover itself can be modified for IC vent, or a turbo imitation cover can be used. RUF style IC feed vents can be cut to rear fenders. NB's chassis also has pressed "openings" for IC to TB piping, they just have to be cut open, thus OEM piping and Y-pipe can again be used. Even 997's parts, depending on the ECU and dump valve solutions.

I also recommend to go directly to twin turbos, independent of turbos planned to be used. (It's in the end more expensive to change setup every now and then than just wait and gather money for few months for an initially more expensive parts.) And forget water to air IC, unless you use the car only for drag racing or cruising. It only can keep the system cool for a very limited time when pushed hard. Ask for a link if necessary...

I have a NB '00 Carrera with turbo's engine and gearbox. 997's VTG turbos, GT2's ICs and plenums and some other stuff...
How difficult was it to fit the 996 turbo motor in your car? Does the traction control still work?
 
  #23  
Old 12-07-2012, 10:22 PM
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I have looked back wondering if I should have bought a Turbo, but back in 2009 when I bought mine, Turbos were running around $45K.

I purchased my 99 C4 with 82,000 miles and received a free extended warranty to 100,000 miles for $17K +Tax & Title. Put 20,000 miles on it in 2 years with multiple cross country road trips just partying and having fun.

Then at 106,000 miles, Vivid Racing fully rebuilt my engine and turbocharged it and a ton of other mods and im still less than $45K'ish into everything (car + upgrades). Yes a Turbo has more potential and pulling 600hp+ is easy but 470 is pretty fun too.

So its still been cheaper than a stock turbo, has more horse power and has given me 3+ years of driving pleasure.

And was recently featured in 9Magazine.




 
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  #24  
Old 12-07-2012, 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by BiteEmNBeatEm
Dang we all got silver 996 NB turbos... lol

What ic scoop is that Pete?
D-I-Y. I'll most likely make stealthier ones during the winter...like to buy these?

Originally Posted by blown996
How difficult was it to fit the 996 turbo motor in your car? Does the traction control still work?
Attachment points are there, for transmission there's two sets of threads, pin bolts must be changed from one to another. OEM rear (engine carrier) bolt mounts may be used, then turbo's engine carrier plate must be modified. Or you can modify bolt mounts to turbo/GT3 style and use turbo's carrier plate.
Electrics/electronics is the hard part, depending on the level of driving aids you want to have. My car had PSM, so I did it the hard way. There's now a complete turbo's engine wiring loom & Motronic ME7.8, instrument panel and HVAC are changed to turbo's ones, with "some" wiring job because of CANbus used in turbo... ABS/PSM unit is also from a turbo, because 4WD Motronic doesn't discuss with a 2WD PSM unit or vv. Everything works, no CELs.
OEM engine wiring loom may be customized to work with turbo's Motronic. ME7.2 and 7.8 have certain differeneces in pin outs, but nothing fundamental. The main difference is in CANbus comms.
If there's no PSM (or no need to use it) then it's easier. Modify OEM wiring loom for turbo engine and use either a piggyback or standalone for engine control. Keep ME7.2 for instrument panel/HVAC/ABS communication.

Then there's some mods for cooling/fuel/AC systems too, pretty easy ones.
 

Last edited by pete95zhn; 12-08-2012 at 12:50 AM.
  #25  
Old 12-08-2012, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by pete95zhn
D-I-Y. I'll most likely make stealthier ones during the winter...like to buy these?



Attachment points are there, for transmission there's two sets of threads, pin bolts must be changed from one to another. OEM rear (engine carrier) bolt mounts may be used, then turbo's engine carrier plate must be modified. Or you can modify bolt mounts to turbo/GT3 style and use turbo's carrier plate.
Electrics/electronics is the hard part, depending on the level of driving aids you want to have. My car had PSM, so I did it the hard way. There's now a complete turbo's engine wiring loom & Motronic ME7.8, instrument panel and HVAC are changed to turbo's ones, with "some" wiring job because of CANbus used in turbo... ABS/PSM unit is also from a turbo, because 4WD Motronic doesn't discuss with a 2WD PSM unit or vv. Everything works, no CELs.
OEM engine wiring loom may be customized to work with turbo's Motronic. ME7.2 and 7.8 have certain differeneces in pin outs, but nothing fundamental. The main difference is in CANbus comms.
If there's no PSM (or no need to use it) then it's easier. Modify OEM wiring loom for turbo engine and use either a piggyback or standalone for engine control. Keep ME7.2 for instrument panel/HVAC/ABS communication.

Then there's some mods for cooling/fuel/AC systems too, pretty easy ones.
How is it on the track? Any problems with over heating? Sorry for all the questions.
 
  #26  
Old 12-08-2012, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by blown996
How is it on the track? Any problems with over heating? Sorry for all the questions.
In the beginning, when I did not have those scoops on fenders and air filter sucked hot air from the engine compartment IAT was -or got- high. Scoops helped a lot, but the final touch was OEM air filter box with direct feed through the rear hatch. For present IATs at track see thread below, posts #439 & 441.

https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...rs-wow-30.html

In general I do not wish more power for track (although it is not even yet in the best tune...), it tends to break it's rear wheels loose when acclelerating out of corners in 3rd. Low end torque is quite massive. But there's no lag, which is nice.
 
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Old 12-08-2012, 11:38 AM
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Thanks for all the info! The car must be a beast on the track! I have a TPC turbo on the car now. It's very quick but still working some bugs out. I always wonder how long the motor will last. Starting to look at some other options. I also have a 997 turbo cab but do not intend to ever track it. Would be nice to have the kind of reliability that comes with the Mezger engine in the other car...
 
  #28  
Old 12-08-2012, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by pete95zhn
D-I-Y. I'll most likely make stealthier ones during the winter...like to buy these?
I'm actualy going to run water to air IC. I do not track my car so there is not a real need for me. Just strait line runs for me, I'll have a heat exhcanger (3rd radiator) plus ice box setup.

I wonder if RUF will sell you the scoops that they used to mod. the rear qtr pannels for there 996 RTurbo which was a narrow body too.
 
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Old 12-08-2012, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by blown996
Thanks for all the info! The car must be a beast on the track! I have a TPC turbo on the car now. It's very quick but still working some bugs out. I always wonder how long the motor will last. Starting to look at some other options. I also have a 997 turbo cab but do not intend to ever track it. Would be nice to have the kind of reliability that comes with the Mezger engine in the other car...
what kind of bugs are you having on your 996 TPC kit?
 
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Old 12-10-2012, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by BiteEmNBeatEm
what kind of bugs are you having on your 996 TPC kit?
My 2nd day at Watkins Glen, the oil return line melted. $1000 tow ride home. 400 miles from the Glen to Boston. Next trip to the Glen the boost hose split wide open. Patched it up, made it part way home. Another $700 tow bill. Then the waste gate wasn't working properly, replaced with a an other brand. Missed another trip to the Glen, another $500 down the drain. Car was running hot on really hot track days. Replaced my old radiators and added an oil cooler. That seemed to fix the problem but wont know for sure till I run on a real hot day again. Also added a blow off valve to prevent over boost. oil gets sucked into the intake and then drips on the exhaust. Added a catch can and bought a motor sport AOS which hasn't been installed yet. On the plus side, the car is really fast, lots of torque and no noticeable turbo lag. I was easily walking away from 996 turbos and GT3's on the straights. Just need to get the car reliable...
 


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