Thanks to Dan of Vivid for working with me on some rear control arms... I'll be installing them within the next few days, and will also be doing an install on some front lowers I happened across that were used but un-used??? if that makes sense... Anyway, I'll be isntalling the GT3 Lowers along with the Vivid uppers in the rear... looking for a good alignment spec that will get me enough for the track, but won't totally kill my street treads either...
What are you track/street guys running...
My setup is as follows:
PSS9s set to 1 rear and 3 front
HR Swaybars with TRD/Tarret adjustable drop links
Vivid rear control arms
GT3 front arms
Current alignment specs are:
-1.5 front w/ 1/16th toe in
-2.0 rear w/ 1/16th toe in
Mike
__________________ I love the smell of dead rodent in the morning...
*2001 996TT - UMW Tune & K16/24s*
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I installed something similar in the rear, and have the GT3 lower control arms on order for the front. The nice thing about this setup is that you can have the alignment both ways. I had my shop set it for 3 degrees negative camber in the rear with stock toe spec. Then I had them set it for 1.25 negative camber and stock toe spec, and recorded the changes. In order to make this work, you need to be able to adjust toe also. I got an adjustable toe link (TRG) but the GT3 control arm would work as well by changing shims. In my case, there was a change of 1 turn on the rear upper control arm and 2 turns on the front upper control arm. (Both of these are on the rear of the car, just one is in front of the other.) I think it was about 1/2 to 3/4 turn on the toe link from one spec to the other.
So now, I set it for the track and street without another trip to the alignment shop.
This setup made a HUGE improvement in track tire wear. I am now actually using the entire tread surface!
Jon
__________________
_______________________________
2001 996 TT Orient Red
PSS9/DAS rollbar/GT3 rear, TRG front sway bars/Milltek exhaust
Upsolute flash/K&N filter/Front monoballs/Clear bra
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Jon, this is excellent news, thanks for sharing... Here's what I plan...
I've got "turn tables" with degree indicators built in, camber caster gage, and a set of toe plates. I'm going to record my setup as is as the street setup is perfect for street. Then I'm going to install the front and rear control arms and shoot for those numbers... Which shims did you get for your GT3 arms?
Mike
__________________ I love the smell of dead rodent in the morning...
I have stock suspension but i got a track/aggresive alingment with it done. I can tell you from stock to the current settings i have - made a WORLD of difference - to bad i didnt have it done before laguna seca.
If i remember correctly, one thing that the shop put on me was toe OUT in the front and i must say it really works...
With the stock suspension, you're going to run out of camber real quick as you progress in track driving, if indeed that's what you want to use the car for...
That said, Most folks set up street cars with a touch of toe out in the front with toe in on the rear, to help with understeer and turn in. My big problem is killing tires, as I'm running times that are beyond what my MPSCs can allow... As I've advanced, the car has pushes beyond the limits of the suspension, even with coil overs and adjustable swaybars.
Mike
__________________ I love the smell of dead rodent in the morning...
With the stock suspension, you're going to run out of camber real quick as you progress in track driving, if indeed that's what you want to use the car for...
That said, Most folks set up street cars with a touch of toe out in the front with toe in on the rear, to help with understeer and turn in. My big problem is killing tires, as I'm running times that are beyond what my MPSCs can allow... As I've advanced, the car has pushes beyond the limits of the suspension, even with coil overs and adjustable swaybars.
Mike
Stock suspension with falken tires.
I took my car to a very well knwon porsche alingment specialist. I told him i wanted to get rid of the push, better steering feel and the car to be more responsive - if the tail comes out its okay i like that. He took a look at the way my tires were wearing and told me to drop it off early morning and it will be ready in the afternoon.
I came back, he said cash only ( so u know its a good place) i told him i didnt have cash he said go get some gave me the keys of my car, and i went to go drive to get the cash and i can tell you why he was so confident that id come back the car is super controlable now. If i had 70% push now its down to 20%. the car rotates so much better, handles so much better, wears the tires evenly , and its much much faster around the corners.
I was lapping 1:41-1:43s at laguna seca with my spare tire/a passanger i'm very very sure that with this alingment ( the confidence it game me) i can push it belows the 40's into the 30's . The car is WAY more controlable and responsive. As for tires, they have lasted me so far 10k miles the way i drive previoustly i was lucky if i saw 3k .
P.s.
So you can understand the times. I read in a magazine the GTR was lapping high 1:39.Xs at laguna seca, with the factory test driver. I'm sure if my straight pipes where aloud at laguna, with my current 300 rated sticky tires and no passanger or tools upfront id blow that time away.
__________________ Forza Ferrari VIVA LA FIGA!!
Last edited by f1crazydriver : 07-23-2008 at 04:53 PM.
Jon, this is excellent news, thanks for sharing... Here's what I plan...
I've got "turn tables" with degree indicators built in, camber caster gage, and a set of toe plates. I'm going to record my setup as is as the street setup is perfect for street. Then I'm going to install the front and rear control arms and shoot for those numbers... Which shims did you get for your GT3 arms?
Mike
That sounds like a perfect plan. Maybe I should invest in some home alignment gear. How much did all of that cost, and where did you get it?
The control arms and shims haven't arrived yet. I asked Steve Weiner at Rennsportsystems to get me the right ones - and I sure hope that he did. I am hoping that I will be able to get a bump of +/- 1.5 degrees with a shim change only - leaving the strut tower in the same place. I can't get more that -1.8 degrees up front, and the tire wear on the track is all on the outside shoulders. Not surprisingly, the car pushes a lot, especially coming out of corners. I hope to get thiese installed before I do a Viper school at Putnam Park in a couple of weeks.
BTW - I recently bought a set of Hoosiers, where I had been running MPSCs. I like them better - they have a much softer feel to them. We'll see what the wear is like. I ran them at Mid-Ohio for a couple of sessions, and only the LF shows much wear. But that track isn't so hard on tires.
__________________
_______________________________
2001 996 TT Orient Red
PSS9/DAS rollbar/GT3 rear, TRG front sway bars/Milltek exhaust
Upsolute flash/K&N filter/Front monoballs/Clear bra
mike sounds like your suspension is coming along nicely.
you may want to check into solid busings to go with your lower arms. I purchased GT3 arms and had the inner bushing replaced with solids this will get you to an RSR type lower arms. I think I have 7mm shims installed. GMG did the set up and front are just under -3.
For upper rear control arms I went with the ones sold by AWE stainless steel Aurora end teflon lined with rubber boots to keep out the grime. Costs abit more but worth it.
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oak
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With the stock suspension, you're going to run out of camber real quick as you progress in track driving, if indeed that's what you want to use the car for...
That said, Most folks set up street cars with a touch of toe out in the front with toe in on the rear, to help with understeer and turn in. My big problem is killing tires, as I'm running times that are beyond what my MPSCs can allow... As I've advanced, the car has pushes beyond the limits of the suspension, even with coil overs and adjustable swaybars.
Mike
Mike, dont be fooled, the MPSC are capable of some VERY VERY fast laps, you havent gotten anywhere near the limit of the tires yet. You just arent using them to their full potential with your weak camber settings. MPSC really promote smoothness because they dont like too much torque coming out of turns.
I'd say with our power levels 2:04's at VIR is very doable on them. Of course your PSS9's may be a limiting factor somewhat. I know the MPSC have a ton more grip than the used R6's I ran up there, I wish I had just put the tires I bought from you on the car when I was there.
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New parts are out the door the today Motons or JIC now!
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the car is super controlable now. If i had 70% push now its down to 20%. the car rotates so much better, handles so much better, wears the tires evenly , and its much much faster around the corners.
previoustly i was lucky if i saw 3k .
Motons or JIC now!
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