2nd gear "pop-out" issues? Click here.

[rajtt]

Originally Posted by kunal

unvmym3, I currently have the problem and I have another year of warranty plus 2 years of porsche pre-owned. The dealership is telling me that Porsche told them 80% of the "2nd gear" issues were due to abuse. So they are telling me that once they open the tranny it could be all my responibility. So if they are doing this to me with another 3 years of warranty, I am pretty sure they will charge for a car that is out of warranty (unless they feel in a giving mood or something)...

Markski, I think Kunal's exprience above clears any doubt over what PCNA's stand on this whole issue is. They don't believe for a moment that this is a factory defect or that they have any responibility toward the owner in this situation. Given this scenario, I'd almost be more comfortable with an independent extended warranty since they have no idea - substantiated by statistics or otherwise - about the history regarding the cause(s) of this particular problem and may be less inclined to authorize the shop to open the tranny just to look for evidence of abuse!

What we as owners have going for us are the state laws in this country that are designed to protect the consumer from insurance (warranty falls in this category) fraud. The onus ultimately is on the warranty company to prove beyond mere speculation that the problem was indeed caused by driver abuse and therein lies our trump card! Getting them to send an independent adjustor to inspect the car is half the battle but the laws dictate that this is their obligation.

sechsagang, the shifter pops out of gear and into neutral. This happens typically when coasting downhill in second and is not to be confused with popping from not getting the shifter completely into the gate.

[MARKSKI]

RAJTT,
My good friend is the head Foreman of a Chicago P car dealership. He extends most of the inside information that none of use ever see. You are wrong if you think that every such tranny issue is caused exclusively by poor driver habbits... I guess you didnt read the inter company memo I posted that my friend was willing to share with me... so Im going to post it again. BTW, poor driver skills is and or may be one of the causes leading to such problems...
the regional P car rep will almost certainly blame the owner for the damage of the syncros.... especially if you show up with a after marker shifter.. then its game over.
here is the memo again...

[rajtt]

Originally Posted by MARKSKI

RAJTT,
You are wrong if you think that every such tranny issue is caused exclusively by poor driver habbits...

Sorry but I never said that! Whatever the root cause(s) of the problem, PCNA simply does not believe that this is an assembly/manufacturing defect and unless they're provided evidence to the contrary (if it exists at all), we will continue to be at the receiving end of this battle!

[unvmym3]

thank you guys .

[kunal]

What I was told by my service advisor (who does not ever want to call me back regarding this issue) is that Porsche now has some pictures/diagrams that determine whether it is wear or defect. So the requirements now are to tear down the tranny and compare the tranny parts to the pictures/diagrams. So I guess if the tear it apart and say it is "abuse" according to the diagram, then the client has to pay for the labor to tear apart the tranny and then pay for all the labor/parts for the new tranny. This is what I am understanding. I currently am not ready to spend 10-12k on a new tranny, especially since I just got the car 9 months ago...

Kunal

[MARKSKI]

Originally Posted by rajtt

They don't believe for a moment that this is a factory defect or that they have any responibility toward the owner in this situation. dictate that this is their obligation.
.

maybe I misunderstood you but it sure seemed that that's what you think as well... since you wrote it. ???
my whole point is that there is proof that aftermarket shifters do not slow down the syncros fast enough..... even it states in black and white.... so while they will try to blame the customer always.... in the meantime make sure you don't have a after market shifter( unless installed by P car dealer and its SSK)... or you will definitely be responsible for 100% of the work. that's all I'm trying to say... I and I also went thru this as well so Im speaking form experience.

[rajtt]

Originally Posted by MARKSKI

maybe I misunderstood you but it sure seemed that that's what you think as well... since you wrote it. ???

Yes, you did misunderstand! My car is stock down to the shifter, has never been subjected to abuse of any sort, never drag raced, never been speed shifted or downshifted without rev matching and yet it has this issue. Why would I even suppose then that this problem is caused by driver abuse/misuse?

As for the aftermarket shifter issue, the statistics on this thread clearly show that the majority of the cars with the problem are those with stock shifters so the whole theory of reduced synchro timing with short throw kits, while reasonable in concept, is not being substantiated by empirical evidence at least on this board!

Originally Posted by MARKSKI

so while they will try to blame the customer always

Word! What is outrageous is that PCNA treats their loyal customers this way and yet an independent warranty company like the one I have didn't as much as raise an eyebrow when it came to coughing up the 11 large for a new tranny!

[Red Devil]

That memo or whatever is a joke! Things the(sic) make you go Hmmm. This is a Porsche-issued notice? I knew Germans had a funny sense of humor! Anyway, this is called an excuse. Same **** with fried M5 clutches. These things are supposed to handle some abuse b/c of what they are. I could see if they were being used as race cars but c'mon folks, it's a Porsche Turbo. If it can't stand up to a little hard-driving then it's just another POS poser. I can't stand it when manufacturers of "supposedly" high quality stuff start cheapening their products and then try and blame someone or something else when it breaks. Porsche has no respect for its customers plain and simple. If I read one more time about how nice their profits are and then they can't stand up and spend a paultry couple hundred grand or whatever to please the owners of one of its premier products, I want to never get one of their cars again. The problem is that alot of manufacturers these days are doing the same thing. What they need is a nice class-action lawsuit. One of you guys out there has to be a blood-sucking ambulance chaser. How bout it?

[steve harris]

markski game not over with ssk.... my dealer never said a word replaced the tranny in 4 days all is fine..... must depend on the dealer or tech who works on the car

[Mike (La Jolla)]

Originally Posted by steve harris

markski game not over with ssk.... my dealer never said a word replaced the tranny in 4 days all is fine..... must depend on the dealer or tech who works on the car

This is one of the most irritating issues here. Porsche is not being consistent about the warranty repair even though it does appear that the transmission is failing miserably on a high percentage of Turbos. And failing miserably on transmissions that were stock and NOT, as in my case, ‘abused’.

I was told, in no uncertain terms, that:
- I didn’t know how to drive
- The tranny failure was due to drive incompetence
- Nobody else has had this problem
- Learn how to drive!
- DON'T LET THE DOOR HIT YOU IN THE ASS ON YOUR WAY OUT!

[unvmym3]

wow thats f*cked up big time.....

[rajtt]

Originally Posted by Red Devil

That memo or whatever is a joke! Things the(sic) make you go Hmmm. This is a Porsche-issued notice? I knew Germans had a funny sense of humor! Anyway, this is called an excuse. Same **** with fried M5 clutches. These things are supposed to handle some abuse b/c of what they are. I could see if they were being used as race cars but c'mon folks, it's a Porsche Turbo. If it can't stand up to a little hard-driving then it's just another POS poser. I can't stand it when manufacturers of "supposedly" high quality stuff start cheapening their products and then try and blame someone or something else when it breaks. Porsche has no respect for its customers plain and simple. If I read one more time about how nice their profits are and then they can't stand up and spend a paultry couple hundred grand or whatever to please the owners of one of its premier products, I want to never get one of their cars again. The problem is that alot of manufacturers these days are doing the same thing. What they need is a nice class-action lawsuit. One of you guys out there has to be a blood-sucking ambulance chaser. How bout it?

Couldn't agree with you more!

[kunal]

Originally Posted by Red Devil

That memo or whatever is a joke! Things the(sic) make you go Hmmm. This is a Porsche-issued notice? I knew Germans had a funny sense of humor! Anyway, this is called an excuse. Same **** with fried M5 clutches. These things are supposed to handle some abuse b/c of what they are. I could see if they were being used as race cars but c'mon folks, it's a Porsche Turbo. If it can't stand up to a little hard-driving then it's just another POS poser. I can't stand it when manufacturers of "supposedly" high quality stuff start cheapening their products and then try and blame someone or something else when it breaks. Porsche has no respect for its customers plain and simple. If I read one more time about how nice their profits are and then they can't stand up and spend a paultry couple hundred grand or whatever to please the owners of one of its premier products, I want to never get one of their cars again. The problem is that alot of manufacturers these days are doing the same thing. What they need is a nice class-action lawsuit. One of you guys out there has to be a blood-sucking ambulance chaser. How bout it?

I agree with you 100%. The sad part is when I had lots of problems with my Aston Martin DB9, I went to the Porsche dealer a couple times. They kept saying how bad the service I was getting by AM was. It seems like they were just talking at that point, and when it comes down to it they are the same as the AM dealer...

[Divexxtreme]

18 stock shifters to 7 SSKs.

[MARKSKI]

Originally Posted by Divexxtreme

18 stock shifters to 7 SSKs.

Scott, I just thought about it.... this sample does not tell us the percentage within the relative pool... meaning... out of how many ssks do we have problems.... same goes for stock shifters...
So just because there are 18 stock shifters to 7 ssk's.. it doesnt mean that stock shifters are more prone to messing up.... one member already extrapolated this data and he believes that the SSks have nothing to do with the problem... I totally disagree....this data shows only the percentages between the two pools and not with in them....
did I make sense??? I'm no statistician...