I sent GMG an e-mail asking them what the spring rates are. If they can't or won't tell me I am going to wait. I'm not really sure how a company expects someone to buy something like springs without being told what the rates are.

I did find this article on springs that was very helpful for me and might help others. http://www.neuralblog.com/_content/P...-705_pn-1.html

And I am on the fence about buying lowering springs anyway. A friend of mine here has a .1 turbo with the Bistein Damptronics and I am going to drive his to see if I like how it drives/handles. I think going that route will probably be what makes me the happiest. I just hate having to deal with coilovers and setting ride heights.

 

I could tell you with certainty that GMG is not going to release that proprietary information. I know, we all want info released but I could understand their position. Have fun with your Bilstein test ride - you might not be able to tell much because really to see it shine you have to take the car close to the limit in curves - the good side of it. In a test drive in a friend's car, possibly all you will notice is that it's stiffer at the milder degree of driving - the bad side of it.


Setting ride height is a no brainer in Bilstein: you tell your installer (who should be an experienced one) how low you want the car to be lowered, he turned the ring up or down, and that's it. It is a one time setting - I suggest 10mm - and all the information you need to measure and confirm the ride height is on the first page of this thread. I would consider the adjustable ride height setting a bonus, not a disadvantage, because the fixed lowering of 20-24mm by lowering springs might be too much for some people.


Lowering springs is a good solution, however that means you still have to deal with the stock PASM/damper, meaning you might still have to add the TPC module for additional $. Bilstein is more expensive, but it does take care of everything (soft spring, soft damper, bad PASM v. 1) in one move.

 

997.2 Turbo S suspension
<hr style="color:#FFFFFF; background-color:#FFFFFF" size="1"> Quote:
<table border="0" width="100%" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset"> Originally Posted by xxx

I found Damptronic B16 and PSS10, also each of them has Comfort and Sport version.
Do I need Sport or Comfort (is Comfort too soft or Sport too hard comparing OEM).

</td></tr></tbody></table>
Someone asked me by PM about Bilstein B16 Damptronic in Europe. It seems there are 2 versions there: Sport and Comfort? I do not know that there is such a thing as 2 separate versions so am posting the question here in case anyone could shed some light on this.

 

Ok, I've been corrected (thanks). There are indeed 2 versions of Bilstein B16 Damptronic. I am a little embarrassed that I did not know this; it's been *only* 6 years since I've been posting on this topic.
1. Model 49-135817, $2839: http://www.awe-tuning.com/bilstein-b...onic-49-135817
2. Model 49-135985, $3053: http://www.awe-tuning.com/bilstein-b...onic-49-135985 (this is what I have)
How do I know which version I have? Going to the Bilstein web site, I see two versions also, and since the booklet that comes with my kit says "Type GA5-D598," which matches number 2, I am sure it is number 2 that I have. It is the Sport version, NOT Comfort version.

http://cart.bilsteinus.com/search/mm.../drivetype=AWD
1. Part Number: 49-135817
Series: B16 (DampTronic)
Position: Front and Rear
Descriptor: (PASM) Damptronic
Descriptor: Comfort Setting
Descriptor: Front Lowered Height: 25-35mm
Descriptor: Rear Lowered Height: 15-35mm
Old Part Number: F4-GA5-D581-H0
Old Part Number: F4-GA5-D581-H1
Old Part Number: F4-GA5-D581-H2

2. Part Number: 49-135985 (this is what I have)
Series: B16 (DampTronic)
Position: Front and Rear
Descriptor: (PASM) Damptronic
Descriptor: Front Lowered Height: 15-35mm
Descriptor: Rear Lowered Height: 15-35mm
Old Part Number: F4-GA5-D598-H2
Old Part Number: F4-GA5-D598-H3

 

I've had the TPC DSC box for about 2 months now and love it. It's changed the handling of my car so much (for the better!) that I am no longer in a hurry to upgrade my suspension. And when I do, I am now leaning more towards the GMG lowering springs and swaybar kit.

 

That sounds like a good plan; there are many happy owners with this setup. Lowering springs do 2 things that the TPC DSC cannot do: it increases the spring rates, and it lowers the car which helps with both handling and aesthetic (if that's what you are looking for).

I have GMG sway bars and am happy with them, but IMHO a reasonable alternative to GMG is Eibach Lowering Springs and Sway Bar. GMG and Eibach springs may not be exactly the same but from recent postings https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...g-springs.html, I am beginning to be suspicious that they behave very similarly. Pure conjecture as I don't have either; for sure Eibach is cheaper and Eibach is a large manufacturer and an extremely reputable company.

 

Subsequently, the Bilstein B16 Damptronic went on to become by far the most popular coilover mod for Porsche Turbo based on my extensive web research :-). That comes probably as no surprise because of A. what it does: it totally transforms the stock car from a soft grand tourer to a legitimate world class sports car, and B. what it costs: economy of scale from Bilstein itself, and C. what Bilstein offers: lifetime warranty (incredible if you think about it). With respect to reliability, while nothing is perfect - sh*t happens with mods and anyone should be smart enough to know that by now, Bilstein's reliability is as good as any suspension setup, if not among best in industry. To me, there are enough data now to indicate an overwhelming majority of suspension setup problems is from poor installation (Even pro's make mistake - over torquing, forget washer, etc., and be smart when they tell you "we did nothing wrong", what else do you expect them to say?), too much lowering, and adding other stiff components/links to the car that the suspension was never designed with. Bottom line: always, always, always get the most experienced tech to install you suspension, don't lower the car too much, buy only from authorized dealer (lifetime warranty), and be careful with "other components" added to suspension. An excellent and reputable dealer for Bilstein with excellent pricing is AWE Tuning: http://www.awe-tuning.com/bilstein-b...onic-49-135985 (There are two versions of B16 Damptronic, a "Sport" version and a "Comfort" version http://cart.bilsteinus.com/search/mmid=204047/drivetype=AWD. You want to get the Sport version, which is 49-135985. Do NOT get the Comfort version, which is 49-135817.)




Why do recommend not getting the comfort version?

 

In re-reading, I realize I should soften my statement a little bit and preface it with "for my taste/personal preference." So... for my taste, even the Sport Bilstein is on the soft side, in comparison to the GT3 for example. I would think if one is going to "upgrade," the expectation would be towards a more sporty suspension, therefore, the stiffer Sport model is more likely the "better" buy. But once again, it's strictly a matter of personal preference; there is not a right or wrong choice here.

When I bought my Bilstein coilover in 2008, only the Sport model was available from vendors in the US to best of my knowledge (anyone pls correct as needed) and I believe this to be the most popular here. When the Comfort model became available in the US, and who and which percentage of 997 users have it, I do not know.

 

Thanks for the clarification. I had the comfort version on my 4s, which was recommended by AWE. Since I still have them, I'm going to throw them on the my turbo and see how they do.

 

I assume you've checked compatibility - same kit fits both 4s and Turbo?

I've driven 997.2 TT - much better PASM setting than 997.1 TT, but still soft for my taste overall. I would be interested in your impression once the Bilstein is in your Turbo.

 

According the AWE and Rhonda at FVD they will fit on my turbo. We shall see. I'll comment once I get them installed.

 

Canga, i just got a 2004 996 tt, and as you know this one has a very soft suspension, (not like the 997.2 tt that i have), i want to make it "safer" in feel and lower, im low in budget so i want to change springs, engine mounts, and probably sway bars, my (for now) two most important issues are lower it and make it safer in feel, like when you say feel it in rails... What can i do???

I think the engine mounts are important because of the engine swing, but talking about so many suspension parts i don't know where to start... can you give me a help.....

thank you again (because this is is not my first question) for your time....

 

Hi there, I had a discussion on this on the first page of this thread that I reposted below. With cost in mind, I would think of the following 3 mods: lowering springs, sway bar, and more negative camber in front.

I would add that while 997 TT is similar to 996 TT and basic principles still hold, as far as specific brands of lowering springs that would work for 996 TT, I do NOT know. You might want to ask in the 996 TT forum also. All lowering springs are not the same, for example for 997 TT, Eibach/GMG and Techart lowering springs are likely to be stiffer than H&R, and for my taste (YMMV), I would lean towards the stiffer lowering springs. I see this Eibach kit by carid: http://www.carid.com/2004-porsche-99...t-7606832.html that seems to be very reasonably priced, but I do not know the details: does it work for the Turbo, is carid a good company, etc. The only thing I know is that Eibach is an excellent and reputable company, so I would definitely check on 996 TT forum also.

Hope this helps. Have a happy, safe, and healthy New Year (to all 6speeders).

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
From first page of this thread, post number 4 : https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ml#post1933382
My Idea of Stages to Upgrade Your Car's Suspension: First please keep in mind the following rambling :-) of "suspension" stages is merely my opinions, although ones that are based on a lot of experimenting, reading, and questioning of professional tuners. It is a very generalized guideline so relax, and don't nit pick :-). I assume before going further, the first question to ask is WHAT are we trying to accomplish when we mod the suspension? To answer this question is to understand the hundreds of posts that follow. The answer is, in general, we mod the suspension to:
A. reduce body roll/weight transfer (not the same thing, but long story and will not cover here)
B. increase grip in corners.
It is because of A and B above that you will notice that *in general* nearly everything we do goes towards stiffening and lowering the car, and increasing tire contact in corners.

Stage 1.
***Coilover or lowering springs: I prefer coilover but if cost is a problem, stiff lowering springs like Eibach, GMG (made by Eibach), or Techart are good alternatives. Keep in mind people move/upgrade from lowering springs to coilover, never the other way around so going w/ springs might cost more in the long run. For coilover, I recommend Bilstein Damptronic (with PASM) as a perfect street/occasional track car, and Bilstein PSS10 (no PASM) if you worry about PASM's reliability. For a track car only, then there are other choices such as JRZ, Ohlins, etc.
***After-market sway bar: Set front softer than rear, to counter our 4WD cars' tendency to understeer. I have GMG but there are a few good ones on the market: Eibach, H&R, TPC, etc. GMG is only company that publishes specs on their sway and that's why I prefer it.
***Alignment change: Increase front camber to its max value, around minus 1.2. The simplest and cheapest mod to our Turbo; recommended without reservation. This is also known as the GT3's street setting and you WILL feel the difference in corners from the higher front end traction. Also decreases understeer, an inherent "problem" with our 4WD 997 Turbo.

Stage 2.
***Drop links with heim joint: Heim joint is metallic, as opposed to stock rubber/PU/plastic links/bushings/etc. After-market drop links like those from Tarett Engineering (well known, reputable, and cheapest) are stiffer and make car feel less rubbery and much more planted. It also reduces a lot of lateral and vertical motion of the Turbo's rear wheel under acceleration. This is among the most cost effective of all suspension mods and I cannot recommend it highly enough: cheap, adjustable by yourself at home. It's also totally reversible so if you don't like it, just take it out. And why wouldn't you like it? It makes the ride stiffer and road noise louder; as always, suspension tuning is about trade-off. Click Here to See Rear Tarett Drop Link . I have this on versus off every few months, sometimes just to study the behavior of the car.

 

******
Have you tried the following (from Vic Elford's book) - adjust seat to max low and max high and see if you could "feel" a difference? Interesting, no?
******

 

I know the following is not suspension related but since I am on this topic of little things that make unbelieveable difference, let me bring your attention to the Techart Steering Wheel.

For $1800,this is one of the most enjoyable and significant mods I have made to my car - and you know I don't pass these judgements easily . The key to the Techart wheel is the 2 bulges at 3 and 9 o'clock, that you could see on lateral view. The muscular and very thick grip puzzlingly :-) alters the sensation of steering in the car - heavier and to me, more in touch. And really, I am pretty sure it's *NOT* all in my head LOL.

I know there are cheaper modifications available, but just add about $900 and you have the real thing, hand made in Germany, designed by a serious German Porsche tuner. Spend your money and have fun.