Pics & Review of My Bilstein PSS10 Lowered Red Turbo
#691
03-12-2016, 07:00 PM
I updated my un-official spring rate table to include TPC Tractive as well as two track oriented cars from forum members Webspoke and pwdrhound (pls PM me if you don't want me to list it). Again this is just for fun and to give you some idea.
Pay attention to the 200-300 front to rear spring rate difference in nearly all 911's. An AWD car tends to understeer so softer spring rate in front (and softer front sway bar setting, wider front tire, etc.) helps to reduce this understeer. This is particularly important for advanced drivers at the track because it improves cornering traction. If you are beginner-level like me :-), a little understeer is not a bad thing and in general is considered safer in amateurs' hands.
Pay attention to the 200-300 front to rear spring rate difference in nearly all 911's. An AWD car tends to understeer so softer spring rate in front (and softer front sway bar setting, wider front tire, etc.) helps to reduce this understeer. This is particularly important for advanced drivers at the track because it improves cornering traction. If you are beginner-level like me :-), a little understeer is not a bad thing and in general is considered safer in amateurs' hands.
Last edited by pwdrhound; 03-13-2016 at 11:27 AM.
#692
06-21-2016, 12:04 AM
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Palos Verdes
Posts: 3,116
Rep Power: 254 
Bump for 8th "anniversary" of my Bilstein installation. Time sure flies.
The car has had a few problems with leakage over the last few years (both Turbo's, engine coolant, wing, clutch - you name it, my car has leaked it
), but the suspension has stayed reliable, knock on wood. Of course the car corners like a bat out of hell :-), precise, tight, firm, with virtually no body lean, and I love taking it through mountain roads.
Still a daily driver and still a long term keeper, especially with both kids now in college
.
The car has had a few problems with leakage over the last few years (both Turbo's, engine coolant, wing, clutch - you name it, my car has leaked it
), but the suspension has stayed reliable, knock on wood. Of course the car corners like a bat out of hell :-), precise, tight, firm, with virtually no body lean, and I love taking it through mountain roads.Still a daily driver and still a long term keeper, especially with both kids now in college
.
#694
06-21-2016, 11:23 AM
Have you added the DSC box?
Bump for 8th "anniversary" of my Bilstein installation. Time sure flies.
The car has had a few problems with leakage over the last few years (both Turbo's, engine coolant, wing, clutch - you name it, my car has leaked it), but the suspension has stayed reliable, knock on wood. Of course the car corners like a bat out of hell :-), precise, tight, firm, with virtually no body lean, and I love taking it through mountain roads.
Still a daily driver and still a long term keeper, especially with both kids now in college.
The car has had a few problems with leakage over the last few years (both Turbo's, engine coolant, wing, clutch - you name it, my car has leaked it
), but the suspension has stayed reliable, knock on wood. Of course the car corners like a bat out of hell :-), precise, tight, firm, with virtually no body lean, and I love taking it through mountain roads.Still a daily driver and still a long term keeper, especially with both kids now in college
.
#695
06-21-2016, 10:39 PM
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Palos Verdes
Posts: 3,116
Rep Power: 254
No. The DSC box is a great product but I am completely happy with my car already and don't want to touch or change anything (first lesson I learned in any kind of mod for my car - once you're happy, touch no more 
).
I should add that my car has Bilstein with much stiffer front and rear springs, not the stock Bilstein springs. (The stiffer front springs as a side effect make steering tighter with less free play, something I appreciate very much as I think the stock Turbo is just too loose.)
).I should add that my car has Bilstein with much stiffer front and rear springs, not the stock Bilstein springs. (The stiffer front springs as a side effect make steering tighter with less free play, something I appreciate very much as I think the stock Turbo is just too loose.)
#696
06-22-2016, 08:26 AM
DSC should send you a box for free...have you run it and see what you think about it. I am not sure anyone else on this board has the amount of time with the "perfect to you" setup you have. Something so good you are skeptical of any improvement being possible.
No. The DSC box is a great product but I am completely happy with my car already and don't want to touch or change anything (first lesson I learned in any kind of mod for my car - once you're happy, touch no more ).
I should add that my car has Bilstein with much stiffer front and rear springs, not the stock Bilstein springs. (The stiffer front springs as a side effect make steering tighter with less free play, something I appreciate very much as I think the stock Turbo is just too loose.)
).I should add that my car has Bilstein with much stiffer front and rear springs, not the stock Bilstein springs. (The stiffer front springs as a side effect make steering tighter with less free play, something I appreciate very much as I think the stock Turbo is just too loose.)
#697
07-24-2016, 12:13 PM
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Palos Verdes
Posts: 3,116
Rep Power: 254 Came across something interesting relating to what I wrote above, 8 years (!!) ago. This morning I was looking at a 991 Turbo S review and lo and behold guess what they are writing
:http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...turbo-s-page-4
The Turbo S will surely be accused of being soulless and inert. We might have leveled that accusation once or twice ourselves.
I should point out that Porsche is more than capable of making cars that stir the soul (GT2/GT3/GT4); it's just Turbo was unfortunately always meant to be a grand-touring type of car. That's why the exhaust whines like an electric hair dryer and the suspension is so "comfortable" (nothing wrong with this - that's what it's meant to be). And why exhaust and suspension are among the most common mods for our beloved Turbo.
Last edited by cannga; 07-24-2016 at 09:06 PM.
#698
07-30-2016, 04:04 PM
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Palos Verdes
Posts: 3,116
Rep Power: 254 Tire Weights
In motorsports, if there ever could be a reasonable generalization, it would probably be about weight; "weight is the enemy of goodness." The idea of lightness is king is particularly important where the weight is unsprung and rotational force is involved. In other words, better to gain weight at the frame (sprung) than at the wheel (unsprung), and better at the wheel (unsprung, inside) than at the tire (unsprung, outside). Angular momentum is proportional to radius - tire is the worst place for you to gain weight as it is furthest from the center of the wheel.
Note that while we know that unsprung weight is bad, whether anyone could feel say a 10% difference in weight - I leave it up to you to decide. The number in bold are the weights of one front plus one rear tire.
Michelin Cup (R comp): front/rear 20/27 = 47 lbs
Pirelli Corsa (R comp): 21/26 = 47
Continental Extreme Contact DW: 21/28 = 49
Hoosier R6 (Race tire, not for street, 315/30-19 rear): 22/27 = 49
Michelin PS2: 22/28 = 50****
Continental SportContact 3: 22/28 = 50
Pirelli Rosso: 22/29 = 51
Bridgestone RE71R: 24/30=54****
Michelin Pilot Super Sport: 25/30 = 55
Bridgestone RE050A: 24/31 = 55
Hankook Ventus V12: 24/32=56
Toyo Roxes R888 (R Comp): 25/31 = 56
Bridgestone RE11: 26/32 = 58
(If you think there is not much of a difference. A Turbo with iron brake and RE11 will have close to 60 lbs. more in unsprung weight than one with PCCB and Michelin Cup!)
In motorsports, if there ever could be a reasonable generalization, it would probably be about weight; "weight is the enemy of goodness." The idea of lightness is king is particularly important where the weight is unsprung and rotational force is involved. In other words, better to gain weight at the frame (sprung) than at the wheel (unsprung), and better at the wheel (unsprung, inside) than at the tire (unsprung, outside). Angular momentum is proportional to radius - tire is the worst place for you to gain weight as it is furthest from the center of the wheel.
Note that while we know that unsprung weight is bad, whether anyone could feel say a 10% difference in weight - I leave it up to you to decide. The number in bold are the weights of one front plus one rear tire.
Michelin Cup (R comp): front/rear 20/27 = 47 lbs
Pirelli Corsa (R comp): 21/26 = 47
Continental Extreme Contact DW: 21/28 = 49
Hoosier R6 (Race tire, not for street, 315/30-19 rear): 22/27 = 49
Michelin PS2: 22/28 = 50****
Continental SportContact 3: 22/28 = 50
Pirelli Rosso: 22/29 = 51
Bridgestone RE71R: 24/30=54****
Michelin Pilot Super Sport: 25/30 = 55
Bridgestone RE050A: 24/31 = 55
Hankook Ventus V12: 24/32=56
Toyo Roxes R888 (R Comp): 25/31 = 56
Bridgestone RE11: 26/32 = 58
(If you think there is not much of a difference. A Turbo with iron brake and RE11 will have close to 60 lbs. more in unsprung weight than one with PCCB and Michelin Cup!)
Updated with weights of Bridgestone RE71R, available for our Turbo. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSe...SortCode=58154
Note the significant weight saving over RE11 - 4 lbs per axle, 8 lbs total all 4 wheels.
Last edited by cannga; 07-30-2016 at 04:17 PM.
#699
08-07-2016, 11:30 AM
Bump for 8th "anniversary" of my Bilstein installation. Time sure flies.
The car has had a few problems with leakage over the last few years (both Turbo's, engine coolant, wing, clutch - you name it, my car has leaked it), but the suspension has stayed reliable, knock on wood. Of course the car corners like a bat out of hell :-), precise, tight, firm, with virtually no body lean, and I love taking it through mountain roads.
Still a daily driver and still a long term keeper, especially with both kids now in college.
The car has had a few problems with leakage over the last few years (both Turbo's, engine coolant, wing, clutch - you name it, my car has leaked it
), but the suspension has stayed reliable, knock on wood. Of course the car corners like a bat out of hell :-), precise, tight, firm, with virtually no body lean, and I love taking it through mountain roads.Still a daily driver and still a long term keeper, especially with both kids now in college
.
#701
08-08-2016, 05:24 PM
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Palos Verdes
Posts: 3,116
Rep Power: 254 https://www.gmgracing.com/store/gmg-...ay-bar-ki.html
If above is not available, other popular choices from reputable companies are H&R and Eibach. Tarett also makes one. Hope this helps.
nacelle, thanks for the nice comment.
#703
08-09-2016, 11:42 AM
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Palos Verdes
Posts: 3,116
Rep Power: 254 While some advocate rebuilt of shock absorber after x miles, in reality for most of us and for a mostly street coilover such as the Bilstein, I don't expect a rebuilt is needed any more often than the stock unit, which to me implies a long long time.
If there are signs of failure (leakage of fluid, bottoming out when hitting a bump, "porpoising" afterwards) then surely it's a pain, but hopefully Bilstein's lifetime warranty will kick in.
#705
08-30-2016, 06:07 PM
yes and no, depending on your driving style, stiffer front -> more understeer, stiffer rear ->more oversteer