997 TT beats GT-R at Ring. Nissan accused of cheating.
997 Turbo / GT22004–present Turbo discussion on the current model Porsche 911 Twin Turbo. Sponsored By SharkWerks, Inc
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I can't believe these guys are saying that a rear engine layout is better than a mid engine layout. Just when i thought i've read it all - along comes this. So what are you guys gonna say next - fwd cars are faster than rwd cars?
And why is Porsche's current fastest, most expensive and best supercar is a mid engine and not rear engine?
not saying that at all, you are putting words in everyones mouth. I stated that all designs have their flaws. Porsche has had 50 years to get it right and they have. Again, why does porsche dominate gt2/gt3 class if it's design is poor and it does it with a smaller engine
Just why did you join this forum, obviously only to drag this fight out? There should be some sort of rule that if you join a forum to argue, you get banned.
Maybe the carreraGT is fastest because of it's 650 hp engine, don't you think that has something to do with it.
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I can't believe these guys are saying that a rear engine layout is better than a mid engine layout. Just when i thought i've read it all - along comes this. So what are you guys gonna say next - fwd cars are faster than rwd cars?
And why is Porsche's current fastest, most expensive and best supercar is a mid engine and not rear engine?
Who said better? Again you are showing a true lack in intelligence. Rear Engine WINS RACES, and has been for a long time, ALL OVER THE WORLD.
In fact lets talk about the GT series where Mid Engine has dominated rear and front engine year after year..........Go ahead, we'll wait.
BTW, the GT2 is just about as fast as the CGT with 70 less hp and a rear engine. And easier to drive at the limit to boot.
__________________ The GT-R is harder to drift than a 997 TT or 997 GT3, therefore if you are trying to drift, the GT-R will consequently get a faster lap. Normal apexing and driving not included.
QUACKER, so your saying that a car that has won more events than just about any other car in it's class is worse than a car that weighs nearly 4000lbs? I guess the GTR was intended for NASCAR racing with it's 4000lb weight. Finally we have figured out where the GTR needs to race
not saying that at all, you are putting words in everyones mouth. I stated that all designs have their flaws. Porsche has had 50 years to get it right and they have. Again, why does porsche dominate gt2/gt3 class if it's design is poor and it does it with a smaller engine
Just why did you join this forum, obviously only to drag this fight out? There should be some sort of rule that if you join a forum to argue, you get banned.
Maybe the carreraGT is fastest because of it's 650 hp engine, don't you think that has something to do with it.
I'm not defending anyone or on anyone's side here. I am a Porsche enthusiast, but to say that the rear engine layout of the 911 is superior to ANY mid engine car by some members here is beyond logic. I'm sure that if the 911 initially had a mid engine layout, it would be even more successful than what it is right now. Hell, i would be very very excited if Porsche decided to release a mid engine 911 turbo. That will kick ass for sure!!
Do you people genuinely think that it is desirable to have the heaviest single component of a car outside the wheelbase?
Please don't tell me how many races 911s have won when attempting to answer.
That IS the answer. Stop trying to eliminate the factor that is the true judge of capability. RACE WINS!!!!!!
It's obviously NOT detrimental to winning race.. You guys keep trying to make it seem inferior, and Porsche keeps on winning races vs the "ideal" layout designed by one of the finest (and F1 winningest) manufacturers in the world.
No one in here has said it's the best method, but in your infinite ignorance you keep trying to make it out to be like we had. All we know is that 911 has stomped mud holes in the mid engine layout.
__________________ The GT-R is harder to drift than a 997 TT or 997 GT3, therefore if you are trying to drift, the GT-R will consequently get a faster lap. Normal apexing and driving not included.
__________________ The GT-R is harder to drift than a 997 TT or 997 GT3, therefore if you are trying to drift, the GT-R will consequently get a faster lap. Normal apexing and driving not included.
That IS the answer. Stop trying to eliminate the factor that is the true judge of capability. RACE WINS!!!!!!
It's obviously NOT detrimental to winning race.. You guys keep trying to make it seem inferior, and Porsche keeps on winning races vs the "ideal" layout designed by one of the finest (and F1 winningest) manufacturers in the world.
No one in here has said it's the best method, but in your infinite ignorance you keep trying to make it out to be like we had. All we know is that 911 has stomped mud holes in the mid engine layout.
Can anyone really be so blind? Do you have any idea of the time and money poured into the 911's development?
Why is the Cayman's chassis generally accepted to be superior to the 911?
If rear-engined is the ideal layout on road and track, why have no other manufacturers followed suit?
Point being the difference in placement in "mid engine" relative to the axle can be as big as the difference between a mid and rear engine classification depending on the car.
The CGT had 600 hp and was wilder than any of the current generation 911's at the limit if you go by any of the accounts of the test drivers. Probably the hardest of Porsche cars 996 or 997 to drive. So your simplistic explanations are still backfiring in your face.
As far as i know, if the engine is in front of the rear axle it is considered a mid engine, regardless how much further or closer it is to the axle. If it's behind the rear axle or on top of it, it is considered rear engine. With your logic, there is no such thing as a mid engine car. Again, the 917's and 956's that dominated Le Mans where mid engined race cars.
You can't say anything remotely bad about the 911 on this forum without getting flamed. Nothing, zero, zilch. It is the PERFECT car beyond any doubt. Even when the upshift is on the left and downshift is on the right in the new 911 pdk is PERFECT. Why would you have it the other way around like every other manufacturer? it doesn't make sense.
You can't say anything remotely bad about the 911 on this forum without getting flamed. Nothing, zero, zilch. It is the PERFECT car beyond any doubt. Even when the upshift is on the left and downshift is on the right in the new 911 pdk is PERFECT. Why would you have it the other way around like every other manufacturer? it doesn't make sense.
you can, but not for someone who just came in here to troll.
No one said it is perfect, far from it, but it is not as bad you fanboys wanna make it appear. The GTR is definitely far worse than you fanboys want to give an impression of.
I see you guys don't answer my comments about a fat 4000lb pig being good for going around a track.
QUACKER, so your saying that a car that has won more events than just about any other car in it's class is worse than a car that weighs nearly 4000lbs? I guess the GTR was intended for NASCAR racing with it's 4000lb weight. Finally we have figured out where the GTR needs to race
The latest midengine Porsche is — by far — the most exotic car the company has yet built: the 2004 Carrera GT.
Quote:
Porsche has two midengine sports cars in its current production lineup, the open-top Boxster and the closed-roof Cayman S. But to many hard-core Porsche enthusiasts, a"real" Porsche will never have its engine any place but out beyond the rear wheels like a proper 356 or 911. And yet the very first Porsche was midengine, and most of the greatest Porsche race machines (907, 908, 917, 936, 956 and 962 to name six) were midengine. And every rational engineer knows that a sports car with its heaviest components centered within the wheelbase will naturally be better balanced and more responsive. There's even an argument to be made that while the rear-engine Porsches may be iconic, the best Porsches have had their engines mounted in a more logical place.
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