997 TT beats GT-R at Ring. Nissan accused of cheating.

[stradaONE8]

THIS = The whole GTR vs TT thing is so absurd it's not even funny anymore. The amount of time people have invested in arguing over forums is simply astounding. Do you people not have jobs or do your employers just pay you Porsche money to spend blabbering on forums all day about something so realistically impractical? Christ, shut the hell up already. Which car is faster is an utterly retarded debate to draw an absolute conclusion about. Considering 95% of tests until the one run by Porsche have the cars pretty much neck and neck, with most giving the edge to the GTR...IT'S PRETTY CLEAR THAT IT'S REALLY A DRIVERS RACE. THE CARS ARE BASICALLY THE SAME but get there in a different way. I cannot believe that so many of you would be so quick to embrace a test done by Porsche discrediting their rivals by over 20 seconds on the ring. The Nissan time was done with a US spec, CONFIRMED, car running Dunlops. Which BTW I created a topic about before and was met with Porsche fanboy nonsense even though I was calling out Nissan... The Dunlops are NOT on the premium car, premium ones get Bridgestones, and Nissan admits the Dunlops are a bit faster on a dry track which is why they used it to set the time. But that's not the point. The point is I'm sure all of you would take very well to Nissan testing a TT and reporting a time of 8:02 (for those math challenged thats the same differential reported by Porsche on the GTR from Nissan's time). Yes none of you would claim bias or BS there, but trust me I get your point that the Nissan car wasn't "true stock spec" but sadly it was confirmed enough for the Ring to give them the time. Maybe they were all paid off, OH NOES!! Then don't consider the ring times part of your equation in judging the cars, look at EVERY other test saying they are neck and neck. Ideally we want two factory drivers on two confirmed stock cars, same day, same time, and until then, SHUT UP. Top Gear tested a GTR and found it to be as fast as a Scud. They are pretty unbiased as their budget far exceeds needing to wack off to any car. Clarkson says whatever he wants, and the Stig is about as close to a yardstick as you'll get with a driver. BUT AGAIN, WHO CARES?! Here's a thought, do you own a TT and a GTR? Then great, ChrisN is a perfect example of a guy who has both and enjoys them both, thanks for sharing all your experiences, really. Those who own one or the other, get off each others nuts. None of you can drive both cars to 100% capability consistently, otherwise you'd wouldn't be on here bitching. So ultimately if you came to a track with your car, it would be a DRIVERS race between you and the other guy, not between your cars, provided they be stock. All the other comparisons are about as valid as a 3 year old doing string theory. So STFU about it already. I went to a PCA Ohio track day with a friend and his new GTR, every Porsche guy there loved it and commented on how well it kept up/beat them on the track. There were no arguments about who was faster, so I don't see why this internet nonsense goes on and on and on. Thanks to anonymity everyone spouts off like a big badass when in reality at any normal track day, you'd all be complimenting each other cars and enjoying them for what they are no matter who is fastest. So in conclusion, as I opened this rant: THIS **** IS BANANAS. Stop arguing about something to clearly pointless in the grand scheme of things.

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[cannga]

When people start hurling personal insults at a poster, YOU KNOW THEY'VE LOST THE ARGUMENT. If this thread is not heavychevy's triumphant march, I don't know what is. He's proven, beyond a reasonable doubt .

In retrospect, HC is not that prescient . Everything about the GT-R is so easy to see. EVERYTHING about this car starts at its near 4000 lbs weight.

It means the car can't be 7:29, or 7:38 fast. Law of physics.
It means the car needs lots of power to be fast. And it means, because of budget restriction, other components such as gearbox can't be made as hefty as could be, leading to the ridiculous "no racing" term on the warranty.
It means the car simply can't be fun to drive. Fast yes, fun no.

I shudder times and again , thinking Chris could have bought a GT-2 with his Turbo plus GT-R budget. OH-MY-GOD.

[stradaONE8]

Originally Posted by cannga

When people start hurling personal insults at a poster, YOU KNOW THEY'VE LOST THE ARGUMENT. If this thread is not heavychevy's triumphant march, I don't know what is. He's proven, beyond a reasonable doubt .

No offense, but that is just terrible logic.
Just because certain people have no idea how to refute his arguments without resorting to name calling, does not imply his argument is right. If we extrapolated that to a court of law, that means anytime a defendant is yelled at or swore at by someone on the side of the prosecution, it proves their innocence...yes, clearly that's how it works.

[ihatepotholes]

Originally Posted by heavychevy

The only sure thing is that Nissan DEFINITELY isnt.

sure

[JFrazier]

This whole Ring time thing is getting pretty ridiculous.

[Gates311]

Can't believe Heavychevy is gonna buy a GT-R! Saweet!

[MiamiIS350]

I read this thread for the smart ass remarks. Thanks for the laugh.

[eclou]

I am part of the HC fan club. As a matter of fact, I am going to make t-shirts for those interested just to piss people off even more. I am thinking of the cartoon kid streaming a rope into "GawdZirrwa's" mouth perhaps?

[Prche951]

saw a new GTR today it looked better in person than in pics. Still hard to believe that it's Cd is lower than the vette or the 997, but you never know...

but I think this comment on another forum says it all:

"Porsche is only pointing out something that we already know (and will be proven if SA is able to get a Euro-spec, will that be propaganda too?), but if you want to keep believing Datsun's insulting marketing campaign were a 1800kg car with 480HP laps with 600HP+ light weight carbon fiber mid-engined supercars, its up to you. "

[grp]

both are dirty cars, the GTR seems like crazy bang for the buck

[heavychevy]

Originally Posted by stradaONE8

No offense, but that is just terrible logic.
Just because certain people have no idea how to refute his arguments without resorting to name calling, does not imply his argument is right. If we extrapolated that to a court of law, that means anytime a defendant is yelled at or swore at by someone on the side of the prosecution, it proves their innocence...yes, clearly that's how it works.

We've gotten into this before and I'd like not to again, but you arent going to jump in here and tell people to stop voicing their opinions and expect to be taken seriously. If you werent complaining about the "GT-R beats etc.", "I drove a GT-R" threads then frankly you are the one who can butt out. These guys have been putting up with fanboy takeover for months now, and with some contradictory evidence on the plate, it's there right, ON A PORSCHE FORUM. There is plenty of grounds for suspsicion, and you brief description of validity has no relevance to the arguement.

#1 Top gear "HAD" only tested cars available in the European market, the testing of the GT-R was an exception to their rule.

#2 They flew the car directy from where? You guessed it Japan. And combined with almost every test saying the car understeers, dont mind me if I'm not convinced when the stig throws it into the carousel and it doesnt push a lick.


So at this point you have a couple of choices, because neither have you, nor can you change the opinions of the people posting in this thread, nor their ability to voice them. You can chill out and post some useful counterpoints or we can go back to the old days of arguing. But you arent going to come in here with that rampage nonsense and expect it to carry any weight.

This is a thread commenting on a statement given by Porsche, with commentary and supporting views from PORSCHE enthusiasts, which is what this board was created for. If you cant accept a little bias, as you will see anywhere, then leave. And take yours with you since you still only see from one side of the point of view. It's best for you to remember where you are before trying to buck the system.

[SRW]

bump

[Prche951]

Originally Posted by grp

both are dirty cars, the GTR seems like crazy bang for the buck

It should be once the dealer mark ups are done with and it's easier to get one.

Like I said earlier I saw one last night running at bandimere. It didn't even have plates and the guy brought it down to bandimere. He was babying it off the line, which I do not blame him for, why break stuff when there is no need. He did run a trap speed of around 118, which is pretty respectable at an altitude of 6000ft. It definitely looked good, albeit, it looked really big. About the size of a new mustang. I have no issue with the car, I just have an issue when people try to stuff it down the throat of this forum. There are other forums out there that deal with these cars, take it there.

I think what is being missed here is that Nissan set out to beat porsche, that was their goal. I think they have come close and are definitely in the ball park. But anyone who knows and has seen racing knows that it is not oly good enough to be fast, you gotta be reliable. Porsches are. Is the GTR? that remains to be seen. how many times has that motor won GT2/GT3 class at Lemans? or even lasted that long? So in the end the GTR has it's place and will likely do well. will it displace the new Turbo? no, most people that go for a turbo, go for it not just for it's performance but it's history and winning record. The motor has won LeMans more times than any other motor on the street. I think that pretty much says it all. Fast and reliable.

[cannga]

Originally Posted by stradaONE8

No offense, but that is just terrible logic.
Just because certain people have no idea how to refute his arguments without resorting to name calling, does not imply his argument is right. If we extrapolated that to a court of law, that means anytime a defendant is yelled at or swore at by someone on the side of the prosecution, it proves their innocence...yes, clearly that's how it works.

I don't know... You won't look so good with the jurors if you lose your cool. Ok, let me give you 2 examples. I could say:

1. You idiotic moron, if you are going to come into a Porsche forum acting like a neutral voice, at least remove that POS G35 from your signature.

Or I could say:

2. Sir, your signature indicates you might have a bias. Although I think the G35/G37 is the best Japanese sedan made and I love that car (truth-might buy one), I don't believe your opinions are trustworthy.

If you are a juror, which version would you like better? Which version would present myself better? 2, right? No??

Kidding aside, the fact is that every time someone loses an argument to Heavychevy, he starts hurling insults at HC. Look back and see for yourself.
BTW, from my counting so far, I am his *third* friend on this forum. Don't no body accuse him of having no friend.

[ALPINE_997]

StradaOne - why does it bother so much that you go on to type out a long winded meaningless rant?

If you are sick of it then why continue to digest it? It seems to give you heartburn...

Turn off the computer or go surf another site and please report back when you find a non-debating automotive forum. We would like to join

.....