997 TT beats GT-R at Ring. Nissan accused of cheating.
997 Turbo / GT22004–present Turbo discussion on the current model Porsche 911 Twin Turbo. Sponsored By SharkWerks, Inc
Welcome to 6SpeedOnline.com!
Welcome to 6SpeedOnline.com.
You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, join 6SpeedOnline.com today!
Find me a GTR that is being driven to its marketed and hyped potential that has not had transmission issues, fluid temp issues, rapid tire wear, exorbitant maintenance costs.
Do you believe everything written by someone with an agenda on the internet?
This ad is not displayed to registered and logged-in members. Register your free account today and become a member on 6SpeedOnline!
Find me a GTR that is being driven to its marketed and hyped potential that has not had transmission issues, fluid temp issues, rapid tire wear, exorbitant maintenance costs.
There's a considerable amount of internet chatter going on these days regarding the GT-R's durability. We've had our fair share of problems, but none of the issues have left us stranded - and that includes the transaxle that was replaced. It had a leaky seal that Nissan wanted to inspect more closely, but it never refused to work right.
That's noteworthy as most of the chat room bickering involves the transmission. We don't doubt other owners have had problems, but our experience has been considerably different.
For one, we bought the car at a dealership like everybody else and we never had to sign a waiver that said the warranty would be voided if we used the launch control system. If anybody else has, we would love to see it.
Since that time, we've track tested our GT-R twice, used launch control numerous times and ran it hard on the Streets of Willow road course during our GT-R versus ZR1 comparison test. The VDC was off and nothing broke. And this was on a car with over 11,000 miles on it, 5,000 of those miles since the new transaxle was installed. Drove it home last night and the car felt fine.
Again, we're not saying the GT-R doesn't have its problems, but when someone says they barely ever used launch control and suddenly their transmission imploded, you wonder if there's more to the story. We would be glad to hear them if people really want to vent, but for now we'll just keep driving our GT-R as hard as ever - "delicate" transmission and all.
Do you believe everything written by someone with an agenda on the internet?
since they are not taking advertising money from Nissan, I actually do take some of the reports seriously. There will always be some chaff, but then again there are 2 owners of both cars here who prefer the 911 and one who has already sold his GTR. One racer local to me is reluctant to track his GTR anymore due to the costs and potential for catastrophic failure. As I pointed out before, I don't consider the car itself to be a disaster yet, but the corporate marketing is disingenious, the warranty support is absurd, and the fanfare from the worshippers has been nauseating.
Trommel have you been outcast by the PH?
__________________
08 Cayenne TT
07 997 tt To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
or the great time they spend hacking the ECU to get some great numbers but A/F ratios are ?... They need to tweak some more? Great guinea pigs batman! Let's release version 10 by the time we are done. v1 - v10 in a few months.
What I do know is that a handful of cars have had issues, the maintenance costs have been hyped out of all reality and that if it had a Porsche badge on the front this forum would have melted down in a frenzy of smug self-abuse.
Handful? You are all the way across the ocean and you can sit on your computer and tell me that it is only a handful? Over 30+ cases of problems not all catastrophic but problems none the less. We know of 5+ that had warranty denied for failed trannies. How many times does it take for you to understand? ABUSE? You and the NAGTROC fanbase can believe all you want.
Funny how the GTR fanboys are running to get info on the upgraded TRANNY FLUIDS, GEARS, and TUNE without asking too many questions. Go ahead and give your money away to a tuner that is still testing and updating. Go ahead and void your warranty on a un-tested ECU tune and lose all your warranty. Go ahead and believe that Nissan has released a competitor.
Oh wait - its not a race car!
I never claimed it wasn't a good car I just got tired of the fanboys over-hyping a product in its infancy...
As I have said in the past and I will say it again.. Give it time we will see...
So ... a heavily-modified car breaks a driveshaft (a bit like a completely standard 996 Turbo did in Autocar's hands if I remember correctly).
Then, usual internet-land conjecture, rumour and panic.
Then someone trying to sell their own formula transmission fluid.
Next - problems with an aftermarket product unrelated to the manufacturer or car itself.
Lastly, someone messes with around with the brakes (clearly for the worse), boils the fluid and gets understeer on dead tyres.
I can quite easily post dozens of links to internet fora where owners Porsches, Ferraris, Lamborghinis, whatever, are complaining about breakages which aren't covered by warranty, issues caused by modifications and modifications which don't work as intended.
It would be as entirely pointless as your cut-and-paste exercise above.
I have driven both and know that it can't beat me stock from 30-120+ roll. But many would believe that it is a Z06 Killer too.
You obviously don't get the cut and paste exercise do you? A car you and so many mags claims to be so great has so many people questioning it and when they are inside the camp they are told its blasphemy and absurd. Yet at the same time they want all the info on NEW GEARS and NEW LUBE. Why so? Do tell...
Do you see Porsche, Lambo, Ferrari with ECU tunes out within the first 3-4 weeks of release? It is not like they had an old ECU to play with. Then its tweak and more tweaks. I saw the A/F Ratio very low to very high - COBB needs to test their tunes before they put it out to public. They are still tweaking as they are working with the ECU stages.
You will defend it as long as you can and it doesn't matter what others have to say you will continue to come on to a Porsche Board and defend the GTR not for its merits but for its flaws. No ONE car is perfect but at least it wasn't hyped to be so by other car manufacturers like Nissan. You don't see many of the TT owners running over to the Ferrari boards and saying my 130K Turbo beats your 280K Ferrari. It is about a given respect that Nissan hasn't earned yet but the fanboys just had to jump in and make it their own party on our boards. I haven't gone over their to laugh at them..
You guys find me a GTR that has been tracked and NOT used LC that has it's tranny blown. None. Zero. Zilch.
Me-qwkr, do a search.
__________________ The GT-R is harder to drift than a 997 TT or 997 GT3, therefore if you are trying to drift, the GT-R will consequently get a faster lap. Normal apexing and driving not included.
He was asking for a GT-R with a blown tranny that had been tracked and not launched.
From what I've read from your posts you fit that category. Correct?
__________________ The GT-R is harder to drift than a 997 TT or 997 GT3, therefore if you are trying to drift, the GT-R will consequently get a faster lap. Normal apexing and driving not included.
I have evidence on the contrary. Before the GTR was released, 911's were winning performance tests left right and center in every magazine tests. I have yet to see any car receive as much praise from motoring journals as the 911 has.
Don't make up excuses for the 911. The design is a flaw from the get go. Porsche deserves credit for managing to make it as good as it is today. They can do better (Cayman?) but they won't cos of the loyal die hard enthusiasts who refuse to accept change.
I am not a 911 apologist and certainly as I didn't design the 911 or the GT-R I don't have any excuses to make. Whichever car is better or worse in whatever area isn't my credit or my shame.
I'm not the most avid follower of magazines, but I can think of several cases wehre I do feel that the 911 got the short end of the stick in a comparison test involving track times.
1. a british mag test where they tracked a GT3 against a GT-R and an M3. Each got one hot lap and out. The mag stated in the youtube vid that the GT3 could have gone faster with warmer tires and noted that its PSCs needed heat to grip. That one left me shaking my head a bit as to why, if they knew they had a flaw in the test, they ddin't just do a better test.
2. Car and Driver Lightning Lap. The 911 turbo was quite a bit slower than the 400hp C6 one year. Don't get me wrong, 'vettes are great and underrated cars, and I own a few of them and I love c6s, but I doubt that if each car was driven to its potential a standard C6 w/400hp could beat a 480hp 911 Turbo. The Porsche has better tires (a BIG advantage for it), better power/weight, AWD, and is certainly a well designed track car. But it lost by quite a bit (Several seconds I believe) to the standard Vette.
I don't buy that a 997tt is considerably slower around a track than a standard C6, and plain and simple I offer my opinion that the 911 was not driven as close to its potential and this is the reason that this result was given. I'm sure there are more examples if I thought about it, but those 2 are fine.
Kudo's to Nissan if they have made a car that the average joe can drive to the limit easily, that is a unique thing and an interesting proposition. But that DOES NOT make Porsches or Z06s or anything else any less good. DOES NOT
Find me a GTR that is being driven to its marketed and hyped potential that has not had transmission issues, fluid temp issues, rapid tire wear, exorbitant maintenance costs.
I have one in my garage. Not sure what "hyped potential" is-- I have not taken it to the Ring, but have done a few LCs, several track days, etc.
__________________
'07 997TT EVOMS EVT-700
'09 Nissan GT-R (Sold back under Lemon Law)
'06 BMW M5 (E60)
'06 Civic Hybrid
'08 Acura MDX
Linear Mode
