997 TT beats GT-R at Ring. Nissan accused of cheating.
997 Turbo / GT22004–present Turbo discussion on the current model Porsche 911 Twin Turbo. Sponsored By SharkWerks, Inc
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Apparently the controversy hasn't spread that far, as you still can't buy one for less than $5K over MSRP (although falling fast).
I mean, come on, 7:29 or 7:39 still make the car among the fastest production cars around the 'Ring. Who cares?
Tranny problems are overblown. Why is it that we don't hear about more and more trannies failing every week? If there are really 30+ failed trannies, that's about 2/week since volume shipments began. Why have we not heard of new cases in the month or so after the tranny news "broke?"
Perhaps because folks are no longer going out and doing 50 LC's in first 2000 miles? Perhaps because it was never a big problem in the first place?
-Chris
Tranny problems overblown? 30 with a car that just came out and only a few in the country at the time? please!!!! 50 hard launches? where did you get that. Seems like it didn't take that many to crush those tranny's.
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Tranny problems overblown? 30 with a car that just came out and only a few in the country at the time? please!!!! 50 hard launches? where did you get that. Seems like it didn't take that many to crush those tranny's.
Nissan NA GT-R "Specialist" told me personally that the only tranny failures not covered under warranty so far have had "many more then 30" launches. 50+ is just my guess.
There are about 1500 GT-R in the USA now (delivered and in customer hands), with volume deliveries starting in August. People started throwing out BS stats like "30+ bad trannies" and "5 bad trannies just in my area," etc. These claims started flying around about a month ago.
If true, we should be hearing about multiple additional failures each week, right?
No new cases reported in a long time (and only handful of truly documented cases to begin with).
What conclusion do you draw? And based on what facts?
Nissan NA GT-R "Specialist" told me personally that the only tranny failures not covered under warranty so far have had "many more then 30" launches. 50+ is just my guess.
There are about 1500 GT-R in the USA now (delivered and in customer hands), with volume deliveries starting in August. People started throwing out BS stats like "30+ bad trannies" and "5 bad trannies just in my area," etc. These claims started flying around about a month ago.
If true, we should be hearing about multiple additional failures each week, right?
No new cases reported in a long time (and only handful of truly documented cases to begin with).
What conclusion do you draw? And based on what facts?
What we know is that LC is being deleted from the upcoming models. Obviously the transmission problem is allot more widespread that what you make it seem. By deleting this feature Nissan will effectively spend millions of dollars.
There are also instances where the owner didnt even Launce the car for the transmission to break.
Exactly. I dont know if they think everyone is as clueless as the fanboys but a manufacturer does spend 5 years developing a car only to remove a feature within the first year because of a few isolated incidents.
FAIL
We werent born yesterday, the proof is in the pudding. The problem was big enough that Nissan removed the feature for the whole world when several manufacturers have done that just for the US. And why? Because the other countries are obviously breaking too.
Nissan's actions speak for themselves.
__________________ The GT-R is harder to drift than a 997 TT or 997 GT3, therefore if you are trying to drift, the GT-R will consequently get a faster lap. Normal apexing and driving not included.
Interesting, given that there isn't a single Nissan-supplied customer GT-R in the UK and won't be until April 2009.
Once again, the internet rumour mill proves its worth.
No GTR's delivered in the UK but you and many others there have "driven one extensively," "taken many laps on track," and the UK press has declared it the next Messiah - but any reports of failures in the UK must be myth!
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no gtr's delivered in the uk but you and many others there have "driven one extensively," "taken many laps on track," and the uk press has declared it the next messiah - but any reports of failures in the uk must be myth!
pwned!!!
Last edited by tblountman; 12-07-2008 at 09:20 AM.
Given that other cars might have or come with launch control, how many times do you think owners actually use it compared to the GT-R crowd? I can't see anyone with $100k plus Porsche/Ferrari/Lambo use launch control even if they had it. The risk of breaking parts is ALWAYS going to be there. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that GT-R owners are more abusive when it comes to LC than their competition. It's one thing to drive hard, but its entirely another thing to frequently use LC. Plus as ChrisN has stated, nearly all transmission deaths have occurred through the frequent use of LC.
Chrisn your source is 100% correct in the comments of that huh? My sources tells me otherwise and there are 3 cars in my area with failed trannies. Of course these guys must have Launched their cars 50+ times no question right?
So tell us in all honesty.
1) True or Not True = Nissan can read how many Launches as car has had before failure?
2) True or Not True = Nissan has proven that LC has caused the failure without opening up the tranny to see if material/workmanship was not a part of the problem?
3) True or Not True = Nissan drove the "The Ring" with VDC off? but consumers can't.
4) True or Not True = Nissan put a Ringer in for "Ring" times.
5) True or Not True = Nissan will no longer publish "Ring" times.
6) True or Not True = Over 3 test cars have been taken off track for tire "chunking". Weight, Bad Tires, or ?
7) True or Not True = The GTR could not withstand a 12/24 endurance race in stock form.
I have many others. My point is that you do not know for certain what Nissan has told anyone. They have lied to you, to me and to the public. And now you want to take your one personal experience and say it can't be true for others?
You will call those who have broken trannies or problems with them LIARS?. But you have 100% faith in your Nissan friend? Is someone misguided?
How many aftermarket tuners for Porsche/Lambo/Ferrari/Aston/etc. are making new gears, mixing new oils or starting a class action lawsuit against the manufacturers for Tranny Oil?
Are you saying that a handful of people are causing all of this? As the boys over at Nagtroc have..
Last edited by ALPINE_997; 12-04-2008 at 09:30 AM.
No GTR's delivered in the UK but you and many others there have "driven one extensively," "taken many laps on track," and the UK press has declared it the next Messiah - but any reports of failures in the UK must be myth!
He's playing word games, no Nissan delevered means not sold in UK but there have been imported GT-R's there for some time. And Nissan agreed to fix some of the broken ones under warranty to keep the matter hush hush until US release. But simply put even the grey market GT-R's have been breaking too. Fail trannies.
__________________ The GT-R is harder to drift than a 997 TT or 997 GT3, therefore if you are trying to drift, the GT-R will consequently get a faster lap. Normal apexing and driving not included.
Given that other cars might have or come with launch control, how many times do you think owners actually use it compared to the GT-R crowd? I can't see anyone with $100k plus Porsche/Ferrari/Lambo use launch control even if they had it. The risk of breaking parts is ALWAYS going to be there. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that GT-R owners are more abusive when it comes to LC than their competition. It's one thing to drive hard, but its entirely another thing to frequently use LC. Plus as ChrisN has stated, nearly all transmission deaths have occurred through the frequent use of LC.
Nobody else has world premiers from Nissan kangarro baby pouch magazine (edmunds) with the healine:
0-60 in 3.3
And 0-60 and 1/4 mile times in every magazine. And then to claim the car isnt a drag racer. The fact is that Nissan was insecure about the car so they had to make it "seem" the best at everything and they made the launch control TOO AGGRESSIVE for the well being of the car. They knew good and well the car would break if launched repeatedly and that with that advertising that's exactly what owners would do. They could have easily made it a 3500 rpm clutch dump and saved some trannies. But noooooooooooo.
So Nissan is not the victim of reckless drivers. They are their own victims of false and sneaky advertising.
__________________ The GT-R is harder to drift than a 997 TT or 997 GT3, therefore if you are trying to drift, the GT-R will consequently get a faster lap. Normal apexing and driving not included.
Given that other cars might have or come with launch control, how many times do you think owners actually use it compared to the GT-R crowd? I can't see anyone with $100k plus Porsche/Ferrari/Lambo use launch control even if they had it. The risk of breaking parts is ALWAYS going to be there. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that GT-R owners are more abusive when it comes to LC than their competition. It's one thing to drive hard, but its entirely another thing to frequently use LC. Plus as ChrisN has stated, nearly all transmission deaths have occurred through the frequent use of LC.
Ive done many launches on new 911s. No problems at all. Its a better controlled "no wear" system. In fact the GT2 was a stick with launch control and there is no wear associated with launches!
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