997 TT beats GT-R at Ring. Nissan accused of cheating.
997 Turbo / GT22004–present Turbo discussion on the current model Porsche 911 Twin Turbo. Sponsored By SharkWerks, Inc
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Ive done many launches on new 911s. No problems at all. Its a better controlled "no wear" system. In fact the GT2 was a stick with launch control and there is no wear associated with launches!
you work at a dealer? are these customer cars, or the dealers inventory that you have done "many launches" with?
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We have the luxury of going to training sponsored by Porsche. Went to Hershey PA. Beat the hell out of the S I was driving. So did everyone esle that drove them.
Also cars Ive sold to customers I showed them how to use it. No probs : )
VW has launch on their GTI/GLI with no problem either from what Ive read.
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This debate of LC could go on and on, but in the end I guess what matters is how the dealer takes care of you if something were to fail. Many Porsche owners here can attest to the remarkable service they receive post purchase and that alone can be worth the difference in cost between the two compared cars. Only time will tell how Porsche will take care of PDK cases if plenty appear.
Wow, little does he know, more camber is only going to make that worse. He isnt cornering hard enough for that much camber. That is an AWEFUL tire wear pattern for a car, the inside tread is destroyed and the outside is tapered. The outside is tapered from body roll, and the inside obviously because he isnt using all of the tire during cornering. Why oh why would you want more negative camber if you're already riding the inside edges?
Boy, I tell you.............
Quote:
Originally Posted by eclou
Oh boy. Now the fanz are cording the insides of the tires but are desperately trying to ADD even more negative camber
__________________ The GT-R is harder to drift than a 997 TT or 997 GT3, therefore if you are trying to drift, the GT-R will consequently get a faster lap. Normal apexing and driving not included.
What we know is that LC is being deleted from the upcoming models. Obviously the transmission problem is allot more widespread that what you make it seem. By deleting this feature Nissan will effectively spend millions of dollars.
There are also instances where the owner didnt even Launce the car for the transmission to break.
That's silly. The feature delete is a simply firmware change, costing a few thousand dollars. BMW did the same think in the E60 M5 (no LC in the U.S.). In fact, when BMW introduced the stick-shift version of the E60 M5, the U.S. version did not even allow you to turn DSC (PSM) off! There was an uproar, so BMW allowed for DSC off, but electronically limits TQ in 1st and 2nd.
Nissan isn't only manuf trying to save people from themselves in the U.S. market where no one wants to face consequences of their abuse.
If GT-R Tranny breaks without an LC or VDC off, then it is covered under warranty. Those storiess have also been rare and mysteriously have stopped-- despite a doubling of the cars on the street since the first reports.
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'07 997TT EVOMS EVT-700
'09 Nissan GT-R (Sold back under Lemon Law)
'06 BMW M5 (E60)
'06 Civic Hybrid
'08 Acura MDX
Chrisn your source is 100% correct in the comments of that huh? My sources tells me otherwise and there are 3 cars in my area with failed trannies. Of course these guys must have Launched their cars 50+ times no question right? [Don't know, I report my source data and my conclusions. You decide.]
So tell us in all honesty.
1) True or Not True = Nissan can read how many Launches as car has had before failure? [My understanding is that they know each time you click VDC off, and the black box data shows the throttle position and other stats that allow them to conclude that you were launching hard. Nissan rep said their is no special "LC counter" but they have lots and lots of data to look at before making a determination of abuse. I suppose repeated hard launches with VDC off could be mistaken for LC, but they would still call that abuse.]
2) True or Not True = Nissan has proven that LC has caused the failure without opening up the tranny to see if material/workmanship was not a part of the problem? [Again, my understanding is that the make an educated guess based on black box data. I assume they aren't trying to rip people off for no reason. They have told me that the warranty denied cases were "extreme."]
3) True or Not True = Nissan drove the "The Ring" with VDC off? but consumers can't. [Not sure about that]
4) True or Not True = Nissan put a Ringer in for "Ring" times. [Not sure, but agree that 7:29 sounds fishy]
5) True or Not True = Nissan will no longer publish "Ring" times. [I read the same blog post-- not sure about that. 7:38 time is printed in owner's manual. Will be interesting to see if/how they edit that for next year]
6) True or Not True = Over 3 test cars have been taken off track for tire "chunking". Weight, Bad Tires, or ? [Don't know. If true, is Nissan or GT-R unique in this regard? Do other cars not consume tires on track?]
7) True or Not True = The GTR could not withstand a 12/24 endurance race in stock form. [I see no reaon why it wouldn't, but don't know / don't care.]
You will call those who have broken trannies or problems with them LIARS? [I think in general that the internet posts from people whose warranty claims were denied do not fairly indicate the level of abuse of their cars]. But you have 100% faith in your Nissan friend? [Not true. I too am concerned and a bit pissed with Nissan, and don't plan do do many more LCs] Is someone misguided?
Are you saying that a handful of people are causing all of this? As the boys over at Nagtroc have.. [Yes, that is what I am saying]
See response in bold
__________________
'07 997TT EVOMS EVT-700
'09 Nissan GT-R (Sold back under Lemon Law)
'06 BMW M5 (E60)
'06 Civic Hybrid
'08 Acura MDX
Wow, little does he know, more camber is only going to make that worse. He isnt cornering hard enough for that much camber. That is an AWEFUL tire wear pattern for a car, the inside tread is destroyed and the outside is tapered. The outside is tapered from body roll, and the inside obviously because he isnt using all of the tire during cornering. Why oh why would you want more negative camber if you're already riding the inside edges?
Boy, I tell you.............
Anybody with any car can order up a stupid alignment. Not sure why this is GT-R related
__________________
'07 997TT EVOMS EVT-700
'09 Nissan GT-R (Sold back under Lemon Law)
'06 BMW M5 (E60)
'06 Civic Hybrid
'08 Acura MDX
Anybody with any car can order up a stupid alignment. Not sure why this is GT-R related
Are you that uptight about defending the GT-R? The tires are GT-R tires, how is that not GT-R related?
Did I give any fault to the car? Goodness dude............
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisn
That's silly. The feature delete is a simply firmware change, costing a few thousand dollars. BMW did the same think in the E60 M5 (no LC in the U.S.). In fact, when BMW introduced the stick-shift version of the E60 M5, the U.S. version did not even allow you to turn DSC (PSM) off! There was an uproar, so BMW allowed for DSC off, but electronically limits TQ in 1st and 2nd.
Nissan isn't only manuf trying to save people from themselves in the U.S. market where no one wants to face consequences of their abuse.
If GT-R Tranny breaks without an LC or VDC off, then it is covered under warranty. Those storiess have also been rare and mysteriously have stopped-- despite a doubling of the cars on the street since the first reports.
And why did BMW do this? Because several hundred BMW enthusiasts were outraged because BMW advertised the LC for the US and then tried to delete it. And a similar situation for he stick shift. BMW didnt even want to make one so they made it watered down so no one would want it and they got another uproar for lots of people so they went ahead and made it.
It was NOT because of failures a key difference with Nissan. And also NOT because of only isolated incidences of complaints, which is similar to Nissan. When you get so many complaints, you had better respond!
Not to mention there are tuners saying the unit is weak and have heard of instances of cracked tranny cases.
Face it, this is more wisespread than you're willing to admit. Manufacturers dont change their product without sufficient reason. PERIOD Nissan felt the car was ok for Launch control after 5 years of developement and with a year the customer base has decided otherwise. And not just 4 or 5 of them
__________________ The GT-R is harder to drift than a 997 TT or 997 GT3, therefore if you are trying to drift, the GT-R will consequently get a faster lap. Normal apexing and driving not included.
See Evo and Car magazine for details.
Last edited by heavychevy; 12-04-2008 at 12:28 PM.
Wow, little does he know, more camber is only going to make that worse. He isnt cornering hard enough for that much camber. That is an AWEFUL tire wear pattern for a car, the inside tread is destroyed and the outside is tapered. The outside is tapered from body roll, and the inside obviously because he isnt using all of the tire during cornering. Why oh why would you want more negative camber if you're already riding the inside edges?
Boy, I tell you.............
Yep... and this GT-R pilot thinks he's a Driver !!!
He complained about the Z06's electronic nannies slowing him down.
Nissan NA GT-R "Specialist" told me personally that the only tranny failures not covered under warranty so far have had "many more then 30" launches. 50+ is just my guess.
There are about 1500 GT-R in the USA now (delivered and in customer hands), with volume deliveries starting in August. People started throwing out BS stats like "30+ bad trannies" and "5 bad trannies just in my area," etc. These claims started flying around about a month ago.
If true, we should be hearing about multiple additional failures each week, right?
No new cases reported in a long time (and only handful of truly documented cases to begin with).
What conclusion do you draw? And based on what facts?
it's pretty much a proven fact that the majority of people that buy sports cars do not drive them hard. Thus, if you say that out of those 1500 $90 to $100k cars only 20% are being driven hard, that is 300, if out of those 300 there are 30 known cases, KNOWN cases, that is a lot. What conclusion do you draw?
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it's pretty much a proven fact that the majority of people that buy sports cars do not drive them hard. Thus, if you say that out of those 1500 $90 to $100k cars only 20% are being driven hard, that is 300, if out of those 300 there are 30 known cases, KNOWN cases, that is a lot. What conclusion do you draw?
That 30 may not be the real number but, if it is, then 30 (when only 800 or so cars were on the street), should be at least 50-60 by now, and yet we are not hearing of any new cases.
That 30 may not be the real number but, if it is, then 30 (when only 800 or so cars were on the street), should be at least 50-60 by now, and yet we are not hearing of any new cases.
Strange.
I doubt that there was 800 cars, but if there were, then take 20% of which were being driven hard, makes about 150-160, and 30 out of that is 20% of cars having tranny problems. not good
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I doubt that there was 800 cars, but if there were, then take 20% of which were being driven hard, makes about 150-160, and 30 out of that is 20% of cars having tranny problems. not good
Pre-October (July+Aug+Sept), there were 1050 cars on street.
You pick the math. but all logic and data suggests the problem was less prevalent than you and others are suggesting. If you believe the prevalence is that bad, then explain why we aren't seeing more failures.
On average, the average propensity to report such a problem in a public forum INCREASES once people suspect that there is a widespread problem.
You pick the math. but all logic and data suggests the problem was less prevalent than you and others are suggesting. If you believe the prevalence is that bad, then explain why we aren't seeing more failures.
On average, the average propensity to report such a problem in a public forum INCREASES once people suspect that there is a widespread problem.
ok 1050, assuming 20% use them hard that is 200 CARS, 30 from 200 is still too high a percentage. You keep on missing my point WHY???????
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The thread referred to in post #2054 of this thread accuses Nissan of keeping a tight rap on the real number of busted trannys. Wonder if there is any truth to it. It's a thread in NAGTROC, and no one questions the claim.
Yep... and this GT-R pilot thinks he's a Driver !!!
He complained about the Z06's electronic nannies slowing him down.
Reality... he was "OVER-DRIVING" the Vette... 
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