997 TT beats GT-R at Ring. Nissan accused of cheating.
997 Turbo / GT22004–present Turbo discussion on the current model Porsche 911 Twin Turbo. Sponsored By SharkWerks, Inc
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I would appreciate it if you get your facts straight before you start talking about someone else's car. I say this because you're talking about MY GT-R.
The car is running the stock turbos. It's also running a straight midpipe and titanium catback exhaust. ECU tuned to up stock boost. Upgraded air intake (from panel filters to cones.)
As far as my "motto" that you mention, I merely stated that because I'm not afraid if the tranny does in fact break. We must push the car to its limits in order to discover what its capable of.
And I did not only run once with launch control. I have about *100* launches on the car and many with the higher HP. I launched it twice at the strip last night -- mis-shifting (hit rev limiter) in both runs. We're heading back to the track tomorrow to improve on things.
So again, if you're going to talk smack about someone's car, please get your facts straight. Because your implications are that the car owner is a LIAR by the way you made your statement.
Thank you.
HC - pwned!!
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With the exception of Mr. Suzuki, no one else has been able to get the stock GTR under 7:50. That is the topic.
If you had driven both GT-R and 997 Turbo (and it seems there are only a handful of people here who have - make of that what you will), you would see that it would take a very committed driver to get near a GT-R's lap time in a standard 997 Turbo.
The same has been proven in endless magazine tests on endless circuits, and also by first-hand feedback from people who have had the opportunity to drive both.
The only independent comparison which has been carried out at the 'Ring saw a stock, unprepared GT-R on the less effective OEM tyre choice get within a few seconds of the GT2 press car on MPSCs - massively narrowing the claimed gap in times. Manufacturers (all of them) test day-after-day, for months to get their times and five or six seconds there is an irrelevance in terms of repeatability.
I suppose all those passing judgment are experts at the 'Ring too ...
If you had driven both GT-R and 997 Turbo (and it seems there are only a handful of people here who have - make of that what you will), you would see that it would take a very committed driver to get near a GT-R's lap time in a standard 997 Turbo.
The same has been proven in endless magazine tests on endless circuits, and also by first-hand feedback from people who have had the opportunity to drive both.
The only independent comparison which has been carried out at the 'Ring saw a stock, unprepared GT-R on the less effective OEM tyre choice get within a few seconds of the GT2 press car on MPSCs - massively narrowing the claimed gap in times. Manufacturers (all of them) test day-after-day, for months to get their times and five or six seconds there is an irrelevance in terms of repeatability.
I suppose all those passing judgment are experts at the 'Ring too ...
No, what we saw was the GT-R on the better of the tires for the conditions. The Bridgestones are better in the wet sections than both the MPSC and the Dunlops. On top of that being AWD in the wet narrowed the gap because Chris was short shifting. So that gap, had it been dry would have been much bigger.
And 7 seconds isnt a few, considering it could have easily been ten or more were Chris more confortable pushing 530 hp with rwd on R compounds in wet conditions.
So let's not even try to act like that was both cars being pushed to the same level, the driver even admitted he pushed one (GT-R) harder than the other (GT2) and still beat it by 7 seconds.
You forget that Porsche tested it's car on the better of its tires when they did the GT-R test. None of the mag tests with the TT have been with the MPSC on the TT.
Not to mention the bridgestones are stickier than the PS2's. And considering the Dunlops are 3 seconds faster on even short tracks, the dunlops arent far from R-comps because PS2's are within three seconds of factory spec MPSC easily.
Get your facts straight.
__________________ The GT-R is harder to drift than a 997 TT or 997 GT3, therefore if you are trying to drift, the GT-R will consequently get a faster lap. Normal apexing and driving not included.
I think (as well as several others) that the tranny failures are due to launching the car many times in a short amount of time. Trans fluid gets too hot to protect the gears. From all the feedback we've heard about the few that have broken, they all had that in common - launch after launch in a short amount of time. One car had like 17 in a row or something.
I launch the car a lot but I wait at least 15-20 minutes (or more) between launches. So far so good.
Welcome to 6speed. Great work on your part getting the power and times you have gotten. I think you will find despite the long thread here most folks are just butting heads for fun and we're really all speed freaks one in the same. While I don't like the GTR as far as aesthetics, weight, and gizmos, it is quite an impressive accomplishment - I think most folks here recognize that. I really hope that Nissan will stop jerking the community around as far as the warranty issue/LC/durability issues - no one should feel like they are getting thrown under the bus with their new car.
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08 Cayenne TT
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This thread has gotten really off topic. We are talking about sports cars and the Nurburgring. As HC has said before, it doesn't take much to make a car go fast in the quarter. Aren't their 9-second Civics? With the exception of Mr. Suzuki, no one else has been able to get the stock GTR under 7:50. That is the topic.
Yeah, but it costs a lot more than $12000 to make a civic run in the 10s. Besides, i can make a go-cart run in the 9's - what's your point?
About the same 1/4 mile times as the best posted...
with a Stock Z06 on run-crap tires.
After how many attempts though....a hundred? in reality, GTR will smoke Z06 9 outta 10 times at the lights. The Z06 driver will have to get his launch perfect to beat the GTR driver, and it aint easy to do that on demand.
Besides, we all know how crappy the build quality of the Z06 is, but that's for another forum...
Be careful with those formulas. Hard to argue with the basic concept that trap speed DEPENDS on power and mass (Newton taught us that).
Issue is that the formulas you are using include some baseline/calibration constants and coefficients that make the formula work accurately only for a certain class of cars/conditions.
A couple of things to be careful of:
1. LC or any good AWD launch will have you on the power for longer, which is going to increase Traps a bit
2. Formulas don't know about fancy dual clutch trannies. Less power, but being applied continuously will be equal to more power that has to pause for shifting.
3. Assuming your numbers are crank HP, cars have widely differing drivetrain losses.
4. Lots and lots of minor things like aero, ambient conditions, ec, etc.
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'07 997TT EVOMS EVT-700
'09 Nissan GT-R (Sold back under Lemon Law)
'06 BMW M5 (E60)
'06 Civic Hybrid
'08 Acura MDX
John, congrats and very impressive. That car sounds great in the video. Loud as hell and I like loud. Did cobb dyno the car for you? Wondering if those online calculators are truly accurate. I think I read 570 kit, which would mean those online calculators are way off. no surprise on that. I think as much trouble as that tranny has it holds the secret to this cars times. Just like the knew PDK makes a carrera NA Porsche scream as well.
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Be careful with those formulas. Hard to argue with the basic concept that trap speed DEPENDS on power and mass (Newton taught us that).
Issue is that the formulas you are using include some baseline/calibration constants and coefficients that make the formula work accurately only for a certain class of cars/conditions.
A couple of things to be careful of:
1. LC or any good AWD launch will have you on the power for longer, which is going to increase Traps a bit
2. Formulas don't know about fancy dual clutch trannies. Less power, but being applied continuously will be equal to more power that has to pause for shifting.
3. Assuming your numbers are crank HP, cars have widely differing drivetrain losses.
4. Lots and lots of minor things like aero, ambient conditions, ec, etc.
That's about as close as you're gonna get with the limited information available !!!
Anyone can mod a car to get more power...
Short of having it put on an engine dyno, the trap speed is a pretty good indication of the horsepower being produced.
After how many attempts though....a hundred? in reality, GTR will smoke Z06 9 outta 10 times at the lights. The Z06 driver will have to get his launch perfect to beat the GTR driver, and it aint easy to do that on demand.
Besides, we all know how crappy the build quality of the Z06 is, but that's for another forum...
Hhmmm... the Gt-R breaking into the "ten's"...
that's being discussed is highly modded/on drag radicals...
running @ a track...
and your point is ???
Build Quality: The GT-R's been available here for what ~ 6 months,
and Nissan's already denying warranty claims for powertrain failures !!!
Do you even read your posts BEFORE submitting a reply ???
Last edited by trumperZ06; 12-07-2008 at 10:13 AM.
Hhmmm... the Gt-R breaking into the "ten's"...
that's being discussed is highly modded/on drag radicals...
running @ a track...
How is a car with stock turbos, pipes, and tune "highly" modded? Please do explain. You also compare the times to a stock ZO6. Are we supposed to be shocked? That car isn't even considered in the initial argument because no one questions its performance. Either way you look at it, those trap speeds are indicative of a lot of power the stock turbos are pushing out. In fact I don't know of any car running those trap speeds on stock turbos.
Last edited by jpvarghese; 12-07-2008 at 10:30 AM.
Hhmmm... the Gt-R breaking into the "ten's"...
that's being discussed is highly modded/on drag radicals...
running @ a track...
and your point is ???
Build Quality: The GT-R's been available here for what ~ 6 months,
and Nissan's already denying warranty claims for powertrain failures !!!
Do you even read your posts BEFORE submitting a reply ???
My point is give credit where credit is due. The guy has the fastest 1/4 mile R35 GTR in the country - if not the world. Yet, you sound like an arse with your comment.
He also has abused the F**ck out of his tranny - around 100 launches, and it's still holding up. Not as weak as you all make it out to be is it?
My point is give credit where credit is due. The guy has the fastest 1/4 mile R35 GTR in the country - if not the world. Yet, you sound like an arse with your comment.
He also has abused the F**ck out of his tranny - around 100 launches, and it's still holding up. Not as weak as you all make it out to be is it?
1. He's got the fastest known R35 GT-R on the internet.
2. He's abused his transmission, and it has survived. So this confirms that there are no problems with the GT-R's tranny.
Again...like I've said...I'll take my chances in my 997TT, or 996TT for that matter.
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07 997 Ruf Tuned Turbo
05 955 Cayenne Turbo - waiting for delivery
04 996 GT3 - sold, looking for replacement
02 996 Turbo - gone, but not forgotten
Nothing remarkable.... about a highly modified GT-R trapping the 1/4 mile @ 129 mph.
If Nissan were to publish these times we would simply conclude it's a...
It is good performance for a highly modified GT-R on Mickey Thompson's 
About the same 1/4 mile times as the best posted...
Build Quality: The GT-R's been available here for what ~ 6 months, 
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