997 TT beats GT-R at Ring. Nissan accused of cheating.
997 Turbo / GT22004–present Turbo discussion on the current model Porsche 911 Twin Turbo. Sponsored By SharkWerks, Inc
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The Audi R8 is one of those cars people have already forgotten about. I guess we will just have to see if people still consider the GTR a wondercar a year from now.
Not sure about that. Still a very popular car that lots of people lust after. AFAIK, they are still hard to get at MSRP and lots of people buy them for their looks (which are awesome, IMHO) and not performance.
I was actually going to buy an R8. I did the "R8 Experience" track day at Infineon. Beautiful car that sounds great as well. But you know what? It felt a bit gutless, and it understeered terribly. In particular, it's not very good performance value for the money.
When the V10 version comes out, I might consider it-- but it will be 2.5X the price of GT-R.
Again, we cant ignore price/performance--- it matter a lot and is one of the things that makes the GT-R truly historic.
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No - the novelty of talking about it on a Porsche forum has worn off, that's all.
Not true. It never aroused as much hatred here or elsewhere. Why? It's german, it's the same price (more with markup) than 997TT and Audi did not promote it as the amazing underdog.
I agree that is a hard statement to back up. Lets see world beating means beating other cars to win the top award right?
Car of the Year Awards:
Motor Trend
Evo
Automobile
AutoCar
Top Gear (SUPER CAR of the Year)
Popular Science
Edmunds
Four Wheeler
Car of the Year Japan 2008-2009 Most Advanced Technology Award
Finalist:
Car And Driver Car of the Year
13th annual International Car of the Year Award (announced in January)
Yes this car does seem like and also ran with all of these accolades.... Magazine testing has shown the GT-R beating the Audi R8, 997 PDK, Gallardo LP560, Z06, 997TT, 997 GT3 and 997 GT2. For $75K that is a world beating, bargain priced super car.
I should also add, that unlike those cars, the GT-R will never see the green flag in any sanctioned multi-lap racing event in it's current configuration due to its weight and excessive driver aids.
Additionally, I doubt Nissan will ever host a driving event series with the GT-R due to reliability/maintenance reasons.
Nissan made a superb STREET-ORIENTED, GRAND TOURING car.
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Silver SRT-8 413whp/432wtq 12.71 @ 111mph
413rwhp/432rwtq San Jose Autos Examiner Soak Magazine Autos Section The "Andy Rooney" of cars.
I should also add, that unlike those cars, the GT-R will never see the green flag in any sanctioned multi-lap racing event in it's current configuration due to its weight and excessive driver aids.
Additionally, I doubt Nissan will ever host a driving event series with the GT-R due to reliability/maintenance reasons.
Nissan made a superb STREET-ORIENTED, GRAND TOURING car.
What are those excessive driver aids? It doesn't have anything the TT lacks-- it just implements them better.
What car or manuf "hosts a driving event series" using the off-the-showroom version of the primary variant of the car (versus a special "challenge" or "GT3" version?).
Agree that the GT-R is a street touring car not a racer (just like the TT), but what's your point.
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'07 997TT EVOMS EVT-700
'09 Nissan GT-R (Sold back under Lemon Law)
'06 BMW M5 (E60)
'06 Civic Hybrid
'08 Acura MDX
Not true. It never aroused as much hatred here or elsewhere. Why? It's german, it's the same price (more with markup) than 997TT and Audi did not promote it as the amazing underdog.
And lastly, we were not inundated by repetative, circular arguments by non Porsche owners....
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07 997 Ruf Tuned Turbo
05 955 Cayenne Turbo - waiting for delivery
04 996 GT3 - sold, looking for replacement
02 996 Turbo - gone, but not forgotten
What are those excessive driver aids? It doesn't have anything the TT lacks-- it just implements them better.
What car or manuf "hosts a driving event series" using the off-the-showroom version of the primary variant of the car (versus a special "challenge" or "GT3" version?).
Agree that the GT-R is a street touring car not a racer (just like the TT), but what's your point.
Porsche and Audi offer driving/ownership events at race tracks.
My point is that in it's current state, especially the weight, it could not compete in racing. If AWD was eliminated to save weight along with the electronically adjustable suspension and the transmission changed for race duty would it still be a GT-R? How would it perform vs. the other cars listed? Much differently.
__________________
Silver SRT-8 413whp/432wtq 12.71 @ 111mph
413rwhp/432rwtq San Jose Autos Examiner Soak Magazine Autos Section The "Andy Rooney" of cars.
I agree that is a hard statement to back up. Lets see world beating means beating other cars to win the top award right?
Car of the Year Awards:
Motor Trend
Evo
Automobile
AutoCar
Top Gear (SUPER CAR of the Year)
Popular Science
Edmunds
Four Wheeler
Car of the Year Japan 2008-2009 Most Advanced Technology Award
Finalist:
Car And Driver Car of the Year
13th annual International Car of the Year Award (announced in January)
Yes this car does seem like and also ran with all of these accolades.... Magazine testing has shown the GT-R beating the Audi R8, 997 PDK, Gallardo LP560, Z06, 997TT, 997 GT3 and 997 GT2. For $75K that is a world beating, bargain priced super car.
Don't forget it won the Wheels magazine '2008 drivers car' award in Australia as well. And the car hasn't even been released in Aussie land yet.
The Aussies are eagerly anticipating the release of the GTR in Australia. Who can blaim them, at 150K - there is no other car that matches it. 997tt - 340K, Lambo LP540- 520K.
Don't forget it won the Wheels magazine '2008 drivers car' award in Australia as well. And the car hasn't even been released in Aussie land yet.
The Aussies are eagerly anticipating the release of the GTR in Australia. Who can blaim them, at 150K - there is no other car that matches it. 997tt - 340K, Lambo LP540- 520K.
dude your like a broken record. it's not that we don't remember, it's that we don't care. That's like saying it won an award in Tierra del Fuego. Sorry, but a land where the pontiac G8 is the primary car just does not float the boat.
Yah the GTR came here and Ran the One Lap of America, a series of races across different tracks in the country. It came in 14th place overall, getting spanked by 996tt's, GT3's, Vipers. The GTR could not even make top 10
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Do you want a car that wins mags or wins races? And add on to that.. Do you want a car that can repeat that over and over again at the next track event or sit out waiting for its brakes to cool, it fluids to stop boiling and its tires being replaced from chunking? Don't tell me that several mags have not chunked tires on this car. Of course you will blame it on the tire manufacturer right?
I am sorry - I didn't hear that...what was that again...?
Me, apologist? Hey man, someone has to waive the flag.
I am disappointed about the LC/VDC situation, but it is hard for me to be indignant. All this was CLEARLY explained to me by the dealer. It is CLEARLY laid out in the special disclaimer thing they have you sign and CLEALY explained in the owners manual.
Look, I think in the future more and more cars will be engineered ASSUMING that an electronic nanny will protect the parts/systems. Many current cars already limit TQ in 1st gear, for example. All modern cars have electronic rev limiters-- even though we all know the cars can handle a bit more.
If you step back and remove your Nissan-hating glasses, you will conclude that at a high level it is a good thing for manufacturers to design cars for reliability IF AND ONLY IF the computer is placing some limits on driver inputs. I for one, don't want a drivetrain that is bulletproof for drop-clutch launches if it is 100 pounds heavier and $5K more to build (or whatever, you get my point).
I don't really consider you as an apologist, but that statement is exactly what you'll find on NAGTROC from the people who bash anyone who says anything negative about the way Nissan marketed the car. I tried to think of a better way to word it, but there wasn't one.
Comon now, a rev limiter and traction control are two different things and cannot be compared. There are cars that come with tq management and that's to help with throttle application and putting power down. And yes some are designed also to prevent wheel hop and damage to drivetrain components. But there are several cars with DSG technology and you can fully disable the traction control without consequence in all the others.
And your whole last paragraph is apologizing again. Nissan's DSG has the most limitations of any other that's on the market. Sorry but I'd take the one with the least amount of limitations on it that one that's lighter and you have to drive around scared of breaking it all the time. There are GT-R owners that are scared to hit the gas pedal because of all the restrictions and warranty void statments. Hell give me a bulletproof manual T60 with a no lift shift on it all day over that.
__________________ The GT-R is harder to drift than a 997 TT or 997 GT3, therefore if you are trying to drift, the GT-R will consequently get a faster lap. Normal apexing and driving not included.
What are those excessive driver aids? It doesn't have anything the TT lacks-- it just implements them better.
What car or manuf "hosts a driving event series" using the off-the-showroom version of the primary variant of the car (versus a special "challenge" or "GT3" version?).
Agree that the GT-R is a street touring car not a racer (just like the TT), but what's your point.
WRONG!
It has a DSG and much stickier tires. Both bigger drivers aids than any computer.
As far as drivers aids, it has much more computer involvement than anything Porsche offers.
__________________ The GT-R is harder to drift than a 997 TT or 997 GT3, therefore if you are trying to drift, the GT-R will consequently get a faster lap. Normal apexing and driving not included.
It has a DSG and much stickier tires. Both bigger drivers aids than any computer.
As far as drivers aids, it has much more computer involvement than anything Porsche offers.
So why aren't you hitting the local track in a Model T or a Curved Dash Olds, or perhaps a '77 Chevette on cross-plies?
As for tyres - your beloved GT3 comes with MPSCs.
As for DSG - the next version of your beloved GT3 will only be available with PDK.
The GT-R offers absolutely no more computer involvement than a 997 Turbo (in fact, the traction/stability programs are actually less of a hindrance in the GT-R in R Mode).
Magazine testing has shown the GT-R beating the Audi R8, 997 PDK, Gallardo LP560, Z06, 997TT, 997 GT3 and 997 GT2. For $75K that is a world beating, bargain priced super car. 
So porsche doesnt have that?
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