997 TT beats GT-R at Ring. Nissan accused of cheating.
997 Turbo / GT22004–present Turbo discussion on the current model Porsche 911 Twin Turbo. Sponsored By SharkWerks, Inc
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VDC in R Mode on a GT-R is arguably less so (than the Turbo at least).
It's not less than PASM off now is it?
You cannot turn off the controls in the GT-R without consequence.
Not only that PSM is not that obtrusive if you can drive. Within a second of having the controls completely off in most models from factory test drivers in factory cars.
You are completely missing the objectives of the two systems. VDC is meant to make corrections for the driver, PSM is meant to show the driver where they made a mistake.
Nissan ran the ring with VDC off, so how much slower would even the ringer have been had they ran with it on? the GT-R is engineered for the car to do the driving, drive in deep, yank wheel, stomp gas and let the electronics sort it out. PSM or PASM is not even close to the same thing.
__________________ The GT-R is harder to drift than a 997 TT or 997 GT3, therefore if you are trying to drift, the GT-R will consequently get a faster lap. Normal apexing and driving not included.
the GT-R is engineered for the car to do the driving, drive in deep, yank wheel, stomp gas and let the electronics sort it out. PSM or PASM is not even close to the same thing.
Again, you are proving that you do not know what you're talking about.
Did you find this out when you drove a GT-R? Oh, wait ...
How many times have you used that line in here? It's played out already. You can read anyone's driving impressions and they'll say the same thing I just posted about the GT-R. That you can "feel" the electronics sorting out the car in the turns. I know exactly how PASM and PSM work, and you wont find any person that will say it feels anything like that.
Your borrowed time in the GT-R means nothing here. Especially when we all know you aren't much of a driver by your own admission.
__________________ The GT-R is harder to drift than a 997 TT or 997 GT3, therefore if you are trying to drift, the GT-R will consequently get a faster lap. Normal apexing and driving not included.
Your borrowed time in the GT-R means nothing here. Especially when we all know you aren't much of a driver by your own admission.
Having driven the car in question makes my opinion worth infinitely more than yours. That is indisputable.
Modesty clearly isn't an issue where you're concerned, but I have a pretty fair idea of my own driving abilities.
Trying to pretend that the electronic systems in a Porsche are somehow different from those in other cars is just pointless semantics -just like VDC in the GT-R, they exist in an effort to stop litigation-hungry Americans crashing. Don't confuse these with how the 4WD systems work.
Having driven the car in question makes my opinion worth infinitely more than yours. That is indisputable.
Modesty clearly isn't an issue where you're concerned, but I have a pretty fair idea of my own driving abilities.
Trying to pretend that the electronic systems in a Porsche are somehow different from those in other cars is just pointless semantics -just like VDC in the GT-R, they exist in an effort to stop litigation-hungry Americans crashing. Don't confuse these with how the 4WD systems work.
Having driven a car that's not yours to an extent that no one knows makes your opinion worth diddly squat. For all we know you could have turned it on and driven from the valet parking spot to a customer, does that make you an expert?
You don't own anything to speak of, and all we have is your word that you have even driven anything. There are several people posting here that know me personally and have driven with me, so who's opinion do you think they will be more inclined to go with? Do I have to drive the GT-R to know that VDC ON is more intrusive than PSM OFF???
Have you driven the GT-R to it's limits in all of the various traction control configurations? Have you driven any of the above to their limits in the same places and done a detailed analysis of which one reacts how and where? I'd bet no, and that my friend makes your opinion just as irrelevant as anyone who hasn't driven the GT-R. Your cruises around town in somebody elses ride, don't mean jack.
I know the limits of PSM and PASM very well and what they are engineered to achieve, and I also know what reputable drivers have said about their impressions of the GT-R at the limit, and they dont match up. To me that is enough to draw a solid conclusion in spite of your so called "expertise".
__________________ The GT-R is harder to drift than a 997 TT or 997 GT3, therefore if you are trying to drift, the GT-R will consequently get a faster lap. Normal apexing and driving not included.
I really have a hard time believing that anyone can render a reasonable opinion of someone else's car from a limited test ride/drive. Trommel if you got to wring-out one of the Jspec Nissan press ringers on a track for a weekend then it may be worthwhile to weigh your opinion. I drove a friend's F430 and Gt2 for 30 min each and I am not the kind of tosser that would beat on a friend's car and take advantage of his generosity. I would suspect that you would act in kind.
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08 Cayenne TT
07 997 tt To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Exactly! I've even driven Jenk12M's M6 on track and didn't get close to the limits. You cant test the limits when you don't know what they are and anyone, including pro drivers hopping in various cars is going to be at the limit in that period of time.
Trommel's proclaimed experience is utterly useless.
__________________ The GT-R is harder to drift than a 997 TT or 997 GT3, therefore if you are trying to drift, the GT-R will consequently get a faster lap. Normal apexing and driving not included.
I never been to the track, i never driven a gt2 or tt, but i drove 997 Carrera S !!!
I think you'd find PSM for the 997TT is very different from the 997 CS, or 996TT for that matter.
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07 997 RTurbo 550 conversion
05 955 Cayenne Turbo - It's here!!! Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow!
04 996 GT3 - sold, looking for replacement
02 996 Turbo - gone, but not forgotten
VDC in R Mode on a GT-R is arguably less so (than the Turbo at least).
It's so unobtrusive that they turned it off completely to do their pseudo-7:29 Ring run?
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07 997 RTurbo 550 conversion
05 955 Cayenne Turbo - It's here!!! Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow!
04 996 GT3 - sold, looking for replacement
02 996 Turbo - gone, but not forgotten
As I have already explained (you clearly read very selectively), I drove a Japanese-spec GT-R for a few laps of Silverstone National Circuit and also a different Japanese-spec car on a coned autocross-style course. I drove in both VDC On and R modes, and there is a huge difference between them. The events were competitive and the autocross course was timed.
On the National Circuit the instructor told me to drive the car "like you stole it" - whilst I have some mechanical sympathy and a modicum of respect for others' property, I did drive it hard (140+ from memory on the Club Straight, lots of power oversteer in R mode and almost outbraked myself going into Maggotts) so I would respectfully suggest that I have a slightly better idea of what the car is about than you can claim.
In fact, I'm interested to know where your information comes from - you have never driven the car in any capacity and you refuse to listen to anything journalists write about it (as they are driving tuned "ringer" cars, being bribed by Nissan to say nice things, lying to sell magazines, etc.). That only leaves the word of your "reputable drivers" (who clearly aren't journalists or racing drivers and obviously don't post here or on any other web fora) or third-hand, fabricated nonsense you pick up on the internet and skew to your liking.
As for you telling me that I "don't own anything to speak of" - that is a breathtakingly arrogant assumption, exactly as I would expect.
I look forward to futher demonstrations of your credibility in discussing the car.
Vlad, have u driven the gt2 or 997tt?...PSM is very unobtrusive...
Ditto in the GT-R. I define obstrusive as a noticable reduction in power or application of brakes. Unless I screw up, I never notice/feel that in either the TT or the GT-R. I suspect, hwoever, that the GT-R helper-bot is actualy intervening seemlessly by managing the AWD system and maybe a touch of corrective braking. The light doesn't blink and you don't feel that bogging from power oss of the vibration of PSM. I have just assumed that that is how this 4000 pound beast manages to do such amazing things on track.
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'07 997TT EVOMS EVT-700
'09 Nissan GT-R (Sold back under Lemon Law)
'06 BMW M5 (E60)
'06 Civic Hybrid
'08 Acura MDX
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You are completely missing the objectives of the two systems. VDC is meant to make corrections for the driver, PSM is meant to show the driver where they made a mistake.
Nissan ran the ring with VDC off, so how much slower would even the ringer have been had they ran with it on?
Not sure I agree with you. No system wil make you faster if you are a terrible driver. They will quickly go into aggressive intervention mode if you really screw up. I think the GT-R have a more progressive intervention which can make you faster.
In theory, any drive in any car should be faster with computer controls. We only have one brake pedal, but four brakes. And there is no manual control for the center diff. Nissan just does it better: using the computer to get the most out of the car, and not just keep you safe. Explain to me how that is bad?
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'07 997TT EVOMS EVT-700
'09 Nissan GT-R (Sold back under Lemon Law)
'06 BMW M5 (E60)
'06 Civic Hybrid
'08 Acura MDX
I really have a hard time believing that anyone can render a reasonable opinion of someone else's car from a limited test ride/drive. Trommel if you got to wring-out one of the Jspec Nissan press ringers on a track for a weekend then it may be worthwhile to weigh your opinion. I drove a friend's F430 and Gt2 for 30 min each and I am not the kind of tosser that would beat on a friend's car and take advantage of his generosity. I would suspect that you would act in kind.
I agree with that in general, although you can begin to get a feel for a car with just a few laps. But a true A/B test requires a fair bit of seat time, and hopefully some GPS telemetry.
Trommel: don't feel bad, I track both cars and have GPS data, but guys here still question my input. Oh well.
Not sure I agree with you. No system wil make you faster if you are a terrible driver. They will quickly go into aggressive intervention mode if you really screw up. I think the GT-R have a more progressive intervention which can make you faster.
In theory, any drive in any car should be faster with computer controls. We only have one brake pedal, but four brakes. And there is no manual control for the center diff. Nissan just does it better: using the computer to get the most out of the car, and not just keep you safe. Explain to me how that is bad?
+1
The Germans are renowned for efficiency. Efficiency is good. A car which makes more use of it's available power compared with a similar powered car shows how more efficient it is and hence its superiority. This cannot be a bad thing.
Its too bad the Germans have been outdone in efficiency this time by the Japanese with the GTR
!!!
Linear Mode
