997 TT beats GT-R at Ring. Nissan accused of cheating.

[gmoney]

I ran a GTR a few months back, close race but I pulled all the same - the higher the speeds the greater the distance I put on it. Without side by side or speed measurements the butt dyno might tell you otherwise but in the real world most people are finding the TT is faster from a roll. On the track (or at least most tracks) clearly the GTR is doing what is was designed to do and I give it props for that, hell, even nipping at the heels or matching the Turbo is reason to celebrate for the cost of admission, beating it is fantastic. I love Japanese cars, had a modded Evo IX before the TT and if I did not get crushed lately investment wise I would have one, no doubt about it. Originally Posted by ALPINE_997 Terrence not to take anything away from you because you obviously enjoy cars. But if a stock GTR cannot beat me on sprints in a my stock Turbo(6 speed) and with 30-120mph runs it couldn't beat me(ran 5 times) then how on earth could you say that the GTR is faster than a StageIII Turbo which would lay waste to me on the roads? Remeber there is a difference between fast and quick. I know you have had both but unless you got a Japanese Demo car I would be hard pressed to say it was faster. I would not speak unless I have driven and raced one and I have. Glad you are enjoying it.

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[monaroCountry]

Originally Posted by Vladcanada

Go read and watch some reviews and maybe you'll get it, its been said many times, GTR brakes very late and gets on accelerator much earlier out of corners due to smart AWD, it has high gearing so it accelerates like a bat out of cave. All the other supercars with RWD and much more power cant do that due to them loosing traction, they need to modulate their gas pedal, where GTR gets and splits all the traction it needs. Its well balanced car, it was designed on the ring. watch some interviews with the developer of GTR and maybe you'll get it, i clearly see how this car can take corners much better then lighter supercars. Okaaaay maybeeee it ran lil more boost so what it is slightly heavier lol

here watch this

Making of GTR

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And watch the Driver Republic review, not so manufacturer PR. It is a heavy car so is not suited to the long Nurburgring track, it wears out its tyres and brakes very quickly. Its weight and 4WD system also makes it understeery.

You can get on the power earlier but it does lack power and simply can not do a 7:29 lap in production form. It has very low gearing which is great for a slow stop start type of track, too bad the Nurburgring is a long fast track.

All these designed in the Ring is utter BS. BTW manufacturers are supposed to run a stock production version and not some boosted up ringer.

[Vladcanada]

Originally Posted by monaroCountry

And watch the Driver Republic review, not so manufacturer PR. It is a heavy car so is not suited to the long Nurburgring track, it wears out its tyres and brakes very quickly. Its weight and 4WD system also makes it understeery.

You can get on the power earlier but it does lack power and simply can not do a 7:29 lap in production form. It has very low gearing which is great for a slow stop start type of track, too bad the Nurburgring is a long fast track.

All these designed in the Ring is utter BS. BTW manufacturers are supposed to run a stock production version and not some boosted up ringer.

there's no proof that they cheated, so it did run 7:29 like it or not, but only professional F1 driver could do that ( Suzuki guy) but its still pretty amazing. every 4wd system is understeery from factory so its safer that way for average joe.

This can go forever, I do believe it went 7:29 but only very few people can duplicate it.

its still an amazing piece of machinery for the money.

Oh and how is it not suited for Nurburgring if they developed GT-R ON IT?

[Guy]

Electronics can make pro-drivers quicker. Try googling 'torque vectoring' if you are interested, it is fitted to many World Rally Cars as it does improve speed, even in the hands of the World Rally Champions.

[yearonemedia@ho]

Id rather have a GT3 or a TT over a GTR any day of the week. I dont care how fast it is, lap times are not important outside of racing, driver enjoyment is.

[USCCayman]

When you make a claim based on research you have conducted, you must explain in great detail how you conducted that resaerch so that others can come along and duplicate your research and get the same results. If someone decides to duplicate your research and can't come up with the same results, your claim becomes highly questionable. An example would be "cold fusion". No one else has been able to duplicate cold fusion, so that claim is considered highly questionable. No one has been able to duplicate Nissan's claim, although Driver's Republic duplicated the Porsche engineer's claim and Von Surma's claim. And come on, Suzuki was never a Formula 1 ace, and the DR journalist is considered a very accomplished Nurburgring driver, having completed 24 hour indurance races there.

[chrisn]

Originally Posted by Deuuuce

Agreed.



That's the problem, and the debate. No one can modulate slowing 4 different wheels simultaneously and conversely, no one can modulate 4 different wheels applying power, either.

The faster the production car, the more R&D required to tune the AWD to that edge.

So therefore, it's a driver's aid that increases complexity, expense, weight and since it's not a safety factor (brakes) but a go-faster factor, is it necessary? And, it isn't allowed in racing, either.

Expense/weight/reliability are all things that time and technology will solve. The GT-R is already unnaturally fast around corners for it's weight and is almost 50% less than competitive cars, so Nissan has started to push the envelope here-- perhaps at the expense of reliability. Only time will tell.

I'm not talking about science fiction or some entirely new concepts-- just the natural evolution of stability contol and AWD diffs-- all enhanced with better mechanical engineering and computer assist.

Guys: this is already happening.

Also, "VDC off" mode does not turn off the smart AWD system or the smart dual clutch. Maybe those should be considered "nannies" as well.

[monaroCountry]

Originally Posted by Vladcanada

there's no proof that they cheated, so it did run 7:29 like it or not

Theres no question that the car ran a 7:29, but was it a ringer?

All times including those driven by the very fast guys could not come close to Nissan's lofty claims. Handling wasnt the issue but power. Simply put the cars in the 7:20's bracket are far mower powerful, far lighter and have far better aero. Nissan's claims is and has always been questionable when it came to the GTR and Nurbrugring.

but only professional F1 driver could do that ( Suzuki guy) but its still pretty amazing.

Ive posted up Suzuki's F1 efforts before. He had one of the worst qualifying and finishing results of any driver. The only thing going for Suzuki was that he had allot of $$$$, still he was dropped after the two races.

every 4wd system is understeery from factory so its safer that way for average joe.

Those that test for manufactures around the Nurburgring are not your average Joe's. Most race car drivers also prefer oversteer than understeer.

Oh and how is it not suited for Nurburgring if they developed GT-R ON IT?

Ive pointed out why its not suited around the ring. This doesnt mean that they didnt test there.

[monaroCountry]

[media]

[Vladcanada]

Originally Posted by monaroCountry

According to Kimi Raikanon your braking points (4:32) are the ones that affect your lap times the most. The GTR is a very heavy car that according to Driver Republic simply cant brake as late or as well and last as long as other proper supercars.

well i heard otherwise. I think in Evo review?


well anyway im done discussing it, its pointless to argue with porsche fans here lol I dont own any of the cars, i like them both, and soon if I would make a purchase decision it would be a tough one.

[chrisn]

Originally Posted by monaroCountry

[media]