997 TT beats GT-R at Ring. Nissan accused of cheating.
997 Turbo / GT22004–present Turbo discussion on the current model Porsche 911 Twin Turbo. Sponsored By SharkWerks, Inc
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And furthermore the video isnt any more convincing than the other that Nissan isnt cheating.
Nissan can nip all this in the bud by releasing telemetry data so we can compare the g forces, acceleration speeds, braking etc with that of the stock cars. That is the ONLY WAY FOR TRUE VINDICATION.
Telemetry never lies, and if Nissan is legit, they will release the telemetry because it will exhonerate them without a doubt, and they know this. But it will also crucify them if not. All these extra videos dont mean jack. Nissan sold a launch control that people arent allowed to use to thousands of people without ever mentioning LC themselves. Do you not think they are clever enough to make a video covering up another of their deceptions???????
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__________________ The GT-R is harder to drift than a 997 TT or 997 GT3, therefore if you are trying to drift, the GT-R will consequently get a faster lap. Normal apexing and driving not included.
See Evo and Car magazine for details.
Last edited by heavychevy; 10-10-2008 at 03:36 PM.
The majority of the whole automotive world agrees that Nissan has been lying, so if you look around, you'll likely find less people in your corner than you think.
An off-guard comment by an engineer from Porsche and diatribes from a few hormonal teenagers on the internet do not constitute the majority of the automotive world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by heavychevy
dont try to make this personal, just state some real facts.
You are the accuser - it's up to you to post facts. I've seen none so far.
"Let’s take a moment to talk about lap times. Consider the following: Last year, I set the fastest Spec Focus lap at the NASA National Championships at 1:45.620. At this year’s Champs, the best lap was 1:48.170, despite the fact that the Spec Focus rules now allow wider tires and lower suspension. Do you really think I’m two and a half seconds better than the best guy was this year, particularly considering that he was driving a better-equipped car? Of course not. Mid-Ohio was slow this year because it rained the day before and washed the rubber off the track, taking a couple of seconds off everybody’s lap. Consider, if you will, that on a track the length of the ‘Ring the equivalent rain-washing time gap would be nine and a half seconds. Lap times set on different days, under different conditions, simply aren’t comparable. It’s that simple. Some days are hot, some days are cool, some days there’s rubber on the track, some days there’s oil. The same competent driver, in the same car, might have a fifteen-second variation from one ‘Ring session to the next. Think about that."
"Let’s take a moment to talk about lap times. Consider the following: Last year, I set the fastest Spec Focus lap at the NASA National Championships at 1:45.620. At this year’s Champs, the best lap was 1:48.170, despite the fact that the Spec Focus rules now allow wider tires and lower suspension. Do you really think I’m two and a half seconds better than the best guy was this year, particularly considering that he was driving a better-equipped car? Of course not. Mid-Ohio was slow this year because it rained the day before and washed the rubber off the track, taking a couple of seconds off everybody’s lap. Consider, if you will, that on a track the length of the ‘Ring the equivalent rain-washing time gap would be nine and a half seconds. Lap times set on different days, under different conditions, simply aren’t comparable. It’s that simple. Some days are hot, some days are cool, some days there’s rubber on the track, some days there’s oil. The same competent driver, in the same car, might have a fifteen-second variation from one ‘Ring session to the next. Think about that."
More firewood, discuss.
Lap records were set in TTU, TTR, TTS and TTA, that I know of and maybe more. Some even set by the guys who set the old ones. The track conditions were fine for some periods of time this year and yeilded record times. Just because a guy had more favorable rules does mean he has as good of a focus as you, or is as good of a driver.
I see where you are coming from in terms of track conditions on a track that long though. Just having no rain on the track is a big accomplishment at the ring, and getting perfect conditions is even more of a crap shoot. I have no problem with that. It still doesnt make up for the differences in acceleration. and the fact that the last turn before the straight is a high speed one, it favors the high power cars even more, especially when they easily kept up for the twisty parts of the lap.
__________________ The GT-R is harder to drift than a 997 TT or 997 GT3, therefore if you are trying to drift, the GT-R will consequently get a faster lap. Normal apexing and driving not included.
I can't believe what I am reading. Is it really true: The transmission and or clutch will cost about 20k to replace in the GT-R? And if your clutch fails from simple wear and tear, the whole transmission will have to go at 20,000 (4 zero's) dollars? I don't want to enjoy on someone else's misery, but this is laughable. Exquisite, just exquisite.
Note to GT-R owners: Sell cars IMMEDIATELY.
Note to GT-R used car shoppers: Must ask to investigate black box, if VDC has ever been used (voids warranty), if launch control has ever been used (voids warranty). Better yet, get a used 996TT -- the real thing.
http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index....st=20&start=20
First off, the clutch is indeed completely integrated, and there is no way (nor any plans from Nissan that my representative knew of) to change that. If the clutch fails, the entire transmission package will need replacement (recommended). The clutch pack is designed to last "as long" as the transmission, so on a general note, they should fail at about the same time.... My rep gave quite a technical answer to my question, and I think she had heard from some very informed people (regarding how and why the clutch is integrated, but you smart car people on here know that, so I won't bore you). I think we are starting to see that the clutches can definitely hold up, even to the point that the gears fail first.
Second question, which my representative said she is working on was: "Since the clutch is fully integrated, is the clutch included in the powertrain warranty?" Usually, clutches are wear and tare items, so they are not covered. However, my representative said that she did not get an answer either way at this point... Since the clutch is integrated, and would require a full transmission replace if broken, one would think that it all has to fall under the warranty. My representative basically said that it wasn't that they didn't have the right person to ask, but that the people in NNA don't know the answer. She also said that, because of this question, they have set up a teleconference for tomorrow with some Nissan big wigs, and the topic will be figuring out the answer to this question. My rep said that she was going to follow the telecon, and get back to me on Thursday with an answer....
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Regards,
Can
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Do you not think they are clever enough to make a video covering up another of their deceptions???????
The video shows GTR hitting 7:29 TWICE with angles from both outside and Inside. Along with real time timing. But I guess nothing will convince you otherwise.
Link just in case you missed it the first time
Copy and Paste the link, it doesn't work when you direct link for some reason.
BTW, the GT-R forum is a real fun place to be and I must admit I've been secretly lurking there for sheer entertainment value. You have innocent owners asking if "turning on the VDC for 3 seconds has voided his warranty" -- , you have GT-R die-hard's playing the reassuring voice "warranty is all in the manual for you to read & should have read before you bought, stupid", then of course the sharks are circling -- vendors offering AND selling components to reduce wheel hop, followed by buyers asking the sharks if this is for real, etc., etc. HILARIOUS!
It's like a soap opera, teeming with questions, lies, explanations, excuses, everything! It's pure, unadulterated fun. Go there, promise it won't be time wasted! Fast, but heavy, ugly, unreliable, what a tainted car it has turned out to be. I think the Z06 or a used 996TT is a much much better value.
__________________
Regards,
Can
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Clutch going out on a BMW = $1000.00
Clutch going out on a Porsche = $2000.00
Clutch going out on a Ferrari = $4000.00
Clutch going out on a GT-R = Not priceless...Pricey..
Be interesting to see how much a PLASMA coating of the cylinder walls will cost
Nissan's biggest mistake has been crediting American purchasers with the intelligence not to abuse a car - hence why Ferrari do not offer launch control on their US-market F1 gearboxes and hence why BMW's SMG launch control is no such thing on US-market cars.
You should do a bit of research into BMW's SMG launch control and warranty issues in Europe.
As for Porsche - how many 996 Turbos had transmissions replaced when they mysteriously wouldn't stay in second gear? Or is that not the same thing?
Nissan's biggest mistake has been crediting American purchasers with the intelligence not to abuse a car - hence why Ferrari do not offer launch control on their US-market F1 gearboxes and hence why BMW's SMG launch control is no such thing on US-market cars.
Nissan's biggest mistake was marketing a car incapable of withstanding the rigors necessary to perform as advertised.
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07 997 Ruf Tuned Turbo
04 996 GT3 - sold, looking for replacement
02 996 Turbo - gone, but not forgotten
The video shows GTR hitting 7:29 TWICE with angles from both outside and Inside. Along with real time timing. But I guess nothing will convince you otherwise.
Link just in case you missed it the first time
Copy and Paste the link, it doesn't work when you direct link for some reason.
I said what will convince me and prove to the world that the car is stock.
TELEMETRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'll let you look it up since you dont seem to know what it is.
__________________ The GT-R is harder to drift than a 997 TT or 997 GT3, therefore if you are trying to drift, the GT-R will consequently get a faster lap. Normal apexing and driving not included.
Check the lap traces from evo magazine and Autocar magazine - the GT-R does not accelerate more quickly than cars with a greater power-to-weight ratio (how could it?), it goes quickly by carrying more speed through the corners.
, you have GT-R die-hard's playing the reassuring voice "warranty is all in the manual for you to read & should have read before you bought, stupid", then of course the sharks are circling -- vendors offering AND selling components to reduce wheel hop, followed by buyers asking the sharks if this is for real, etc., etc. HILARIOUS!
It's pure, unadulterated fun. Go there, promise it won't be time wasted! Fast, but heavy, ugly, unreliable, what a tainted car it has turned out to be. I think the Z06 or a used 996TT is a much much better value.
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