997 TT beats GT-R at Ring. Nissan accused of cheating.
997 Turbo / GT22004–present Turbo discussion on the current model Porsche 911 Twin Turbo. Sponsored By SharkWerks, Inc
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someone with alot of time made this linear regression showing actual ring performance vs expected performance (based on power/weight ratio). All car fall within a std deviation of the curve except for the GTR which falls over 2 deviations outside the expected performance.
Telemetry would show exactly how the numbers could be achieved, and how this was not a stock/std car. It would require any combination of the following:
a)more power than std
b)less weight than std
c)racing compound tires
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08 Cayenne TT
07 997 tt To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Check the lap traces from evo magazine and Autocar magazine - the GT-R does not accelerate more quickly than cars with a greater power-to-weight ratio (how could it?), it goes quickly by carrying more speed through the corners.
End of story, end of argument.
Trommel - a screened cylinder used to separate materials by size - for example, separating municipal waste.
I would have thought with your user name like that, you would have separated the hype from the BS.
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07 997 Ruf Tuned Turbo
05 955 Cayenne Turbo - waiting for delivery
04 996 GT3 - sold, looking for replacement
02 996 Turbo - gone, but not forgotten
I would have thought with your user name like that, you would have separated the hype from the BS.
Exactly - I have no agenda. I'm not pro-Nissan; I'm not anti-Porsche.
Facts are what facts are. Stock car, stock tyres - the data shows it is as fast as everyone says it is.
Unlike the internet warriors, I've driven a GT-R on track. It didn't feel mind-bendingly fast in a straight line, but it carried huge speed through the corners (and this was on tired P Zeros).
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahahhhahahaahahah ha
Mizuno is a trip.
__________________ The GT-R is harder to drift than a 997 TT or 997 GT3, therefore if you are trying to drift, the GT-R will consequently get a faster lap. Normal apexing and driving not included.
someone with alot of time made this linear regression showing actual ring performance vs expected performance (based on power/weight ratio). All car fall within a std deviation of the curve except for the GTR which falls over 2 deviations outside the expected performance.
Telemetry would show exactly how the numbers could be achieved, and how this was not a stock/std car. It would require any combination of the following:
a)more power than std
b)less weight than std
c)racing compound tires
Thank goodness I took statistics...I can actually understand what that graph says...
...it says Nissan final test score would have been pulled because of deviation, and be forced to retake a the test.
So lets have it Nissan...Do it again! I dare you...
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07 997 Ruf Tuned Turbo
05 955 Cayenne Turbo - waiting for delivery
04 996 GT3 - sold, looking for replacement
02 996 Turbo - gone, but not forgotten
I LOVE every minute of reading this thread. I really should be watching my portfolio but you guys are just "too much" to ignore. Between this thread and Nagtroc, I am spending way way too much time on the computer.
Mitzuno, don't know who you are, but you sure are funny.
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Regards,
Can
Bilstein Coilover: To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. & To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
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Check the lap traces from evo magazine and Autocar magazine - the GT-R does not accelerate more quickly than cars with a greater power-to-weight ratio (how could it?), it goes quickly by carrying more speed through the corners.
End of story, end of argument.
Cars? What cars? Every car?? Comon dude, that is pathetic.
At the ring it didnt show any more cornering ability than the Zonda or ZR-1. But it sure showed as much straight line speed, which would suggest GT-R's will be flying by people on long straights around the world just like the ZR-1 and Zonda will be doing. And that's simply not the case.
CASE CLOSED.
TELEMETRY OR BAN.
__________________ The GT-R is harder to drift than a 997 TT or 997 GT3, therefore if you are trying to drift, the GT-R will consequently get a faster lap. Normal apexing and driving not included.
Ho ho ho. ***MAJOR*** failure of design. Why would ANYONE want to buy this car? Why, oh why?
http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index....ic=25374&st=40
My understanding is that Borg Warner design and make the twin clutches, triple cone sycronisers and some of the hydraulic control system.
The actual Gears and transaxle castings are designed and made by Nissan
GKN provide the electromagnetic 4 wd torque distribution and LSD.
As a ex gearbox designer the failures seen so far appear to be strength not wear related, and quite suprising to me that the larger of the gear set has failed as it is the smaller gear that is normally designed with higher strength materials. Wonder if Nissan just need to use higher strength materials or hardening on the larger first gear.
It is a major failure in design that the gearbox fails before a half shaft or stub axle connection. It is pretty simple to design in a torque limiting device which would have the added advantage (at least for Nissan) of stopping abuse from the increased torque of tuning.
I have heard from a reliable source that the clutch pack was designed for 140,000 miles of normal use. Its not clear what the definition of normal use for this car is though...
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Regards,
Can
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LOL, the **** has hit the fan now. I can see the panic at Nissan now not thinking they'd be called out so quickly. But they knew it was coming from covering up the problems from the Japan release. They issued a recall on the car over there.
5 years of developement - 100 million
Porsche Turbo media prop - 130,000
Broken tranny - 20,000
Brake change - 7,000
Recall in first month - priceless
__________________ The GT-R is harder to drift than a 997 TT or 997 GT3, therefore if you are trying to drift, the GT-R will consequently get a faster lap. Normal apexing and driving not included.
At the ring it didnt show any more cornering ability than the Zonda or ZR-1. But it sure showed as much straight line speed, which would suggest GT-R's will be flying by people on long straights around the world just like the ZR-1 and Zonda will be doing. And that's simply not the case.
CASE CLOSED.
TELEMETRY OR BAN.
What on earth are you talking about? On what basis can you possibly tell it didn't corner more quickly? It's obvious watching the split-screen of the GT-R and ZR1 laps where the Corvette makes its time, and it isn't away from the straight bits.
Telemetry or ban? I don't have a direct line into Nissan's R&D department (although you seem to think you know more than they do).
Facts please, just facts, and not conjecture and fabrication.
Too funny. Just like the veterans of nagtroc, go ahead and blame the "stupid" customers. I don't know if any of the following is true, but it WAS reported in the mecca that is nagtroc ():
1. In order to lure innocent and gullible customers, they advertised "faster than Porsche."
2. To be faster than Porsche requires a mid 3 seconds 0-60 time.
3. To have a mid 3 seconds 0-60 time, you MUST turn off VDC for launch control.
4. But the warranty is voided if you turn off VDC or use launch control.
Where in the above 4 steps to Nirvana is it the customer's fault? You seem to be a knowledgeable person (looking to buy a Turbo), why on earth are you taking chances with a near 4000 lbs, ugly, and unreliable car?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trommel
Nissan's biggest mistake has been crediting American purchasers with the intelligence not to abuse a car - hence why Ferrari do not offer launch control on their US-market F1 gearboxes and hence why BMW's SMG launch control is no such thing on US-market cars.
You should do a bit of research into BMW's SMG launch control and warranty issues in Europe.
As for Porsche - how many 996 Turbos had transmissions replaced when they mysteriously wouldn't stay in second gear? Or is that not the same thing?
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Regards,
Can
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You seem to be a knowledgeable person (looking to buy a Turbo), why on earth are you taking chances with a near 4000 lbs, ugly, and unreliable car?
Simply because the GT-R is a better car than a 997 Turbo. Don't knock it until you've tried it. All it lacks is the prestige badge to massage the ego of the insecure owner.
No doubt the next generation of 911 will be better still (it better be unless they only want to sell Cayennes). It's the way it works.
Between this thread and Nagtroc, I am spending way way too much time on the computer.
Linear Mode
