997 TT beats GT-R at Ring. Nissan accused of cheating.
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I would have thought with your user name like that, you would have separated the hype from the BS.
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Facts are what facts are. Stock car, stock tyres - the data shows it is as fast as everyone says it is.
Unlike the internet warriors, I've driven a GT-R on track. It didn't feel mind-bendingly fast in a straight line, but it carried huge speed through the corners (and this was on tired P Zeros).
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someone with alot of time made this linear regression showing actual ring performance vs expected performance (based on power/weight ratio). All car fall within a std deviation of the curve except for the GTR which falls over 2 deviations outside the expected performance.
Telemetry would show exactly how the numbers could be achieved, and how this was not a stock/std car. It would require any combination of the following:
a)more power than std
b)less weight than std
c)racing compound tires
Telemetry would show exactly how the numbers could be achieved, and how this was not a stock/std car. It would require any combination of the following:
a)more power than std
b)less weight than std
c)racing compound tires
Thank goodness I took statistics...I can actually understand what that graph says...
...it says Nissan final test score would have been pulled because of deviation, and be forced to retake a the test.
So lets have it Nissan...Do it again! I dare you...
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I LOVE every minute of reading this thread. I really should be watching my portfolio but you guys are just "too much" to ignore. 
Between this thread and Nagtroc, I am spending way way too much time on the computer.
Mitzuno, don't know who you are, but you sure are funny.
Between this thread and Nagtroc, I am spending way way too much time on the computer.Mitzuno, don't know who you are, but you sure are funny.
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Cars? What cars? Every car?? Comon dude, that is pathetic.
At the ring it didnt show any more cornering ability than the Zonda or ZR-1. But it sure showed as much straight line speed, which would suggest GT-R's will be flying by people on long straights around the world just like the ZR-1 and Zonda will be doing. And that's simply not the case.
CASE CLOSED.
TELEMETRY OR BAN.
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Ho ho ho. ***MAJOR*** failure of design. Why would ANYONE want to buy this car? Why, oh why? 
http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index....ic=25374&st=40
My understanding is that Borg Warner design and make the twin clutches, triple cone sycronisers and some of the hydraulic control system.
The actual Gears and transaxle castings are designed and made by Nissan
GKN provide the electromagnetic 4 wd torque distribution and LSD.
As a ex gearbox designer the failures seen so far appear to be strength not wear related, and quite suprising to me that the larger of the gear set has failed as it is the smaller gear that is normally designed with higher strength materials. Wonder if Nissan just need to use higher strength materials or hardening on the larger first gear.
It is a major failure in design that the gearbox fails before a half shaft or stub axle connection. It is pretty simple to design in a torque limiting device which would have the added advantage (at least for Nissan) of stopping abuse from the increased torque of tuning.
I have heard from a reliable source that the clutch pack was designed for 140,000 miles of normal use. Its not clear what the definition of normal use for this car is though...
http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index....ic=25374&st=40
My understanding is that Borg Warner design and make the twin clutches, triple cone sycronisers and some of the hydraulic control system.
The actual Gears and transaxle castings are designed and made by Nissan
GKN provide the electromagnetic 4 wd torque distribution and LSD.
As a ex gearbox designer the failures seen so far appear to be strength not wear related, and quite suprising to me that the larger of the gear set has failed as it is the smaller gear that is normally designed with higher strength materials. Wonder if Nissan just need to use higher strength materials or hardening on the larger first gear.
It is a major failure in design that the gearbox fails before a half shaft or stub axle connection. It is pretty simple to design in a torque limiting device which would have the added advantage (at least for Nissan) of stopping abuse from the increased torque of tuning.
I have heard from a reliable source that the clutch pack was designed for 140,000 miles of normal use. Its not clear what the definition of normal use for this car is though...
Last edited by cannga; Oct 10, 2008 at 04:57 PM.
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LOL, the **** has hit the fan now. I can see the panic at Nissan now not thinking they'd be called out so quickly. But they knew it was coming from covering up the problems from the Japan release. They issued a recall on the car over there.
5 years of developement - 100 million
Porsche Turbo media prop - 130,000
Broken tranny - 20,000
Brake change - 7,000
Recall in first month - priceless
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At the ring it didnt show any more cornering ability than the Zonda or ZR-1. But it sure showed as much straight line speed, which would suggest GT-R's will be flying by people on long straights around the world just like the ZR-1 and Zonda will be doing. And that's simply not the case.
CASE CLOSED.
TELEMETRY OR BAN.
CASE CLOSED.
TELEMETRY OR BAN.
Telemetry or ban? I don't have a direct line into Nissan's R&D department (although you seem to think you know more than they do).
Facts please, just facts, and not conjecture and fabrication.
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Too funny. Just like the veterans of nagtroc, go ahead and blame the "stupid" customers. I don't know if any of the following is true, but it WAS reported in the mecca that is nagtroc ():
1. In order to lure innocent and gullible customers, they advertised "faster than Porsche."
2. To be faster than Porsche requires a mid 3 seconds 0-60 time.
3. To have a mid 3 seconds 0-60 time, you MUST turn off VDC for launch control.
4. But the warranty is voided if you turn off VDC or use launch control.
Where in the above 4 steps to Nirvana is it the customer's fault? You seem to be a knowledgeable person (looking to buy a Turbo), why on earth are you taking chances with a near 4000 lbs, ugly, and unreliable car?
):1. In order to lure innocent and gullible customers, they advertised "faster than Porsche."
2. To be faster than Porsche requires a mid 3 seconds 0-60 time.
3. To have a mid 3 seconds 0-60 time, you MUST turn off VDC for launch control.
4. But the warranty is voided if you turn off VDC or use launch control.
Where in the above 4 steps to Nirvana
is it the customer's fault? You seem to be a knowledgeable person (looking to buy a Turbo), why on earth are you taking chances with a near 4000 lbs, ugly, and unreliable car?Nissan's biggest mistake has been crediting American purchasers with the intelligence not to abuse a car - hence why Ferrari do not offer launch control on their US-market F1 gearboxes and hence why BMW's SMG launch control is no such thing on US-market cars.
You should do a bit of research into BMW's SMG launch control and warranty issues in Europe.
As for Porsche - how many 996 Turbos had transmissions replaced when they mysteriously wouldn't stay in second gear? Or is that not the same thing?
You should do a bit of research into BMW's SMG launch control and warranty issues in Europe.
As for Porsche - how many 996 Turbos had transmissions replaced when they mysteriously wouldn't stay in second gear? Or is that not the same thing?
Last edited by cannga; Oct 10, 2008 at 05:04 PM.
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No doubt the next generation of 911 will be better still (it better be unless they only want to sell Cayennes). It's the way it works.
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You are not disagreeing that it is ugly, weighs near 4000 lbs, and has potentially very expensive reliability problems? Just that it's "better"?
Simply because the GT-R is a better car than a 997 Turbo. Don't knock it until you've tried it. All it lacks is the prestige badge to massage the ego of the insecure owner.
No doubt the next generation of 911 will be better still (it better be unless they only want to sell Cayennes). It's the way it works.
No doubt the next generation of 911 will be better still (it better be unless they only want to sell Cayennes). It's the way it works.
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Simply because the GT-R is a better car than a 997 Turbo. Don't knock it until you've tried it. All it lacks is the prestige badge to massage the ego of the insecure owner.
No doubt the next generation of 911 will be better still (it better be unless they only want to sell Cayennes). It's the way it works.
No doubt the next generation of 911 will be better still (it better be unless they only want to sell Cayennes). It's the way it works.