997 TT beats GT-R at Ring. Nissan accused of cheating.

[cannga]

You are not disagreeing that it is ugly, weighs near 4000 lbs, and has potentially very expensive reliability problems? Just that it's "better"? Originally Posted by Trommel Simply because the GT-R is a better car than a 997 Turbo. Don't knock it until you've tried it. All it lacks is the prestige badge to massage the ego of the insecure owner. No doubt the next generation of 911 will be better still (it better be unless they only want to sell Cayennes). It's the way it works.

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[Prche951]

Originally Posted by Trommel

Simply because the GT-R is a better car than a 997 Turbo. Don't knock it until you've tried it. All it lacks is the prestige badge to massage the ego of the insecure owner.

No doubt the next generation of 911 will be better still (it better be unless they only want to sell Cayennes). It's the way it works.

The GTR is a POS, knowck it after you have tried it. I have not seen a real one run under mid 12's. It weighs 4000 lbs. It's ugly as sheeit. It has the Nissan brand name which is not kown for reliability like toyota or Honda. Explain to me again what is it about this car, oh yah, it's the B-boy racer look that you little kids like. But I agree with you that on PS2 and 3 the GTR kicks arse in a big way....

[Trommel]

Originally Posted by Prche951

The GTR is a POS, knowck it after you have tried it. I have not seen a real one run under mid 12's. It weighs 4000 lbs. It's ugly as sheeit. It has the Nissan brand name which is not kown for reliability like toyota or Honda. Explain to me again what is it about this car, oh yah, it's the B-boy racer look that you little kids like. But I agree with you that on PS2 and 3 the GTR kicks arse in a big way....

You'd never know you were American. I'm buying it because it's a very capable car and great to drive. The badge is an irrelevance, I'm not that insecure.

I'm also not some redneck whose only interest is the dragstrip.

As for looks - if any company introduced a clean-sheet new car which looked like a 997, people would cry with laughter.

[cannga]

And you are not denying that UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCE are you to take this car to the drag trip, because a launch control for the advertised 0-60 time would void your warranty? Just that "you are not a red neck whose only interest is the dragstrip"?

So far the list:

Near 4000 lbs (you, knowledgeable and from England, of all people should know about weight and sports car)
Potential Very Expensive Reliability Problem -- Not Covered by Warrranty
Can't achieve 0-60 advertised time.
(Fair enough, I'll remove ugly for now.)

Originally Posted by Trommel

You'd never know you were American. I'm buying it because it's a very capable car and great to drive. The badge is an irrelevance, I'm not that insecure.

I'm also not some redneck whose only interest is the dragstrip.

As for looks - if any company introduced a clean-sheet new car which looked like a 997, people would cry with laughter.

[Prche951]

Originally Posted by Trommel

You'd never know you were American. I'm buying it because it's a very capable car and great to drive. The badge is an irrelevance, I'm not that insecure.

I'm also not some redneck whose only interest is the dragstrip.

As for looks - if any company introduced a clean-sheet new car which looked like a 997, people would cry with laughter.

oh American jokes. Cool. Let's go there, Hey, when are you guys(UK) ever going to make a reliable car, oh yah, maybe when the earth goes back to pre electronics and uses cables for control, you may make some reliable cars then.

[kilodawg]

cannga,

Please reconsider and put ugly back in....Please....

[heavychevy]

Originally Posted by Trommel

Simply because the GT-R is a better car than a 997 Turbo. Don't knock it until you've tried it. All it lacks is the prestige badge to massage the ego of the insecure owner.

No doubt the next generation of 911 will be better still (it better be unless they only want to sell Cayennes). It's the way it works.

Wow, after al this you still have the nerve to assert that the GT-R is a better car?

The 997 Turbo:

-Costs much less to maintain (which surprises everyone)
-Is faster accelerating
-Better quality interior
-More sturdy
-A better quality and more comfortable ride
-More Durable (and that's sad that we know this so soon after GT-R release)
-Has a much broader visual appeal (I.E. attractive to more people)
-Has Porsche Service
-A warranty you can count on
-A proven near bullet proof motor
-Lighter
-Has manual option
-Launch Control you can actually use


So tell me what the GT-R has in advantages and lets see who wins this discussion.

[USCCayman]

Is Trommel for real?

[heavychevy]

Originally Posted by MiniDHinkle

Dez, wonder what GTrawr would run at Road ATL.

One ran a 1:36.8 in a time trial not long ago. Which is ok, but nothing near GT3 or GT2 not to mention a CGT.

[cannga]

You guys are killing me...

Originally Posted by kilodawg

cannga,

Please reconsider and put ugly back in....Please....

[jaeS4]

Originally Posted by Prche951

The GTR is a POS, knowck it after you have tried it. I have not seen a real one run under mid 12's. It weighs 4000 lbs. It's ugly as sheeit. It has the Nissan brand name which is not kown for reliability like toyota or Honda. Explain to me again what is it about this car, oh yah, it's the B-boy racer look that you little kids like. But I agree with you that on PS2 and 3 the GTR kicks arse in a big way....

Here's one that did 11.9 for the GTR and 11.7 for the 997TT.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlD4DUxaa2g

Here's a amateur video with the GTR doing 11.27, probably had slicks on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFyaHPGJ6nU

Again, i still believe that the GTR is way under-rated.

[chrisn]

Originally Posted by heavychevy

Wow, after al this you still have the nerve to assert that the GT-R is a better car?

The 997 Turbo:

-Costs much less to maintain (which surprises everyone)
-Is faster accelerating
-Better quality interior
-More sturdy
-A better quality and more comfortable ride
-More Durable (and that's sad that we know this so soon after GT-R release)
-Has a much broader visual appeal (I.E. attractive to more people)
-Has Porsche Service
-A warranty you can count on
-A proven near bullet proof motor
-Lighter
-Has manual option
-Launch Control you can actually use


So tell me what the GT-R has in advantages and lets see who wins this discussion.

It's a better value. If you ignore price, the TT is better. Is that so hard to understand?


GT-R Cons:
Ugly
Limited Prestige
Heavy
Expensive Maintenance

GT-R Pros:
Dramatically cheaper than comparably equipped 997TT
Faster tranny makes car faster than expected
Better AWD and "PSM" systems makes car faster than expected
Less turbo lag
Faster for most people to drive around most tracks in the world (no head-to head test has shown otherwise)
Is the new-new thing; fun to drive the car du jour

If money is no object, you should just buy every car you like (or buy two of each-- or three). For normal people, money matters.

[stradaONE8]

Wow 40 pages and counting...

IMO Launch Control/Warranty Void Mode should be removed as a performance enhancer and/or selling point unless Nissan will honor it's use, otherwise it's absolutely absurd.
That being said, no one realizes aside from the obvious warranty issues that Nissan should be ashamed of, that the performance point is really moot until a head to head comparo is done with full verification of both cars by independent sources, around the ring or not.

So far P-car owners whine about "magazine racers/PS3 fanboys/etc " coming in and talking about the GTR like they have driven it.
I still have to ask, aside from Chrisn (who is so obviously above this ridiculous pettiness) how many of you have had the keys to one??
HC?? How many hotlaps have you made in a US spec GTR?

HC, I respect your extensive track experience, but point is, you have never driven one or done any hotlaps with one. Considering the whole magazine racer argument, do come back with seat time in one and then talk about what a retail GTR feels like to drive based on experience.
Until then, everything you say is still conjecture, albeit informed conjecture.

As for the rest of the P-car owners who seem to have little to actually contribute to the argument, do pull your tongues out of HC's ass.
He doesn't need the ego boost nor the cheer-leading, and you don't need his defense of your TTs from the GTR.

[ALPINE_997]

Originally Posted by porsherboy

Code Red, code Red, Nissan Japan - stop all productions of GTRs immediately! Dedicated internet user has discovered a flaw in the design of the GTR's gearbox through months of extensive research on internet forums looking through ONE picture of broken GTR gearbox. This guy is a legend, please hire him to work for your company ASAP and fire all your transmission engineers.

Porsherboy is this you?

[jaeS4]

Originally Posted by stradaONE8

Wow 40 pages and counting...

IMO Launch Control/Warranty Void Mode should be removed as a performance enhancer and/or selling point unless Nissan will honor it's use, otherwise it's absolutely absurd.
That being said, no one realizes aside from the obvious warranty issues that Nissan should be ashamed of, that the performance point is really moot until a head to head comparo is done with full verification of both cars by independent sources, around the ring or not.

So far P-car owners whine about "magazine racers/PS3 fanboys/etc " coming in and talking about the GTR like they have driven it.
I still have to ask, aside from Chrisn (who is so obviously above this ridiculous pettiness) how many of you have had the keys to one??
HC?? How many hotlaps have you made in a US spec GTR?

HC, I respect your extensive track experience, but point is, you have never driven one or done any hotlaps with one. Considering the whole magazine racer argument, do come back with seat time in one and then talk about what a retail GTR feels like to drive based on experience.
Until then, everything you say is still conjecture, albeit informed conjecture.

As for the rest of the P-car owners who seem to have little to actually contribute to the argument, do pull your tongues out of HC's ass.
He doesn't need the ego boost nor the cheer-leading, and you don't need his defense of your TTs from the GTR.

Wow! Well said and to the point. I guess anyone that hasn't driven the GTR including myself is guilty for mag-racing and speculating, regardless which side you're on, whether you're hatin on the GTR or a fan of the GTR. I honestly think that the whole issue of the 7:29 in The Ring doesn't really matter because if it is proven which it has been already with the video, GTR haters will still not give the GTR any credit or validation. On the other hand, the issue with the warranty being voided if the VDC is off and the LC being used is just utterly ridiculous and unfair. Nissan should be embarrased about this and should get sued for this and i hope the owners that are having problems with this should be properly taken care of and not a dime should come out of their pocket. JMHO

BTW, can we move on and just stop childish bickering. Seriously, it's just a car, try not to take this so personal. Unless you're one of the GTR owners that are having problems with the warranty, there's really no need to be upset about Nissan or the GTR. And if Nissan is lying, which i don't think they are, at least not with the 7:29 time, so what. Again, I think and almost sure that the only thing that Nissan is lying about is the HP of the GTR. And if you think about it, the 997TT has the upper hand since the GTR has to make so much more power just to match the 997TT's performance. Cheers.