997 TT beats GT-R at Ring. Nissan accused of cheating.
997 Turbo / GT22004–present Turbo discussion on the current model Porsche 911 Twin Turbo. Sponsored By SharkWerks, Inc
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I have not seen a ZR1 in person, but I have seen an ACR. It is really a "Cup" car that can be street legal if the aero parts are removed. Just to expound on your point Porsche already sells Cup cars that will outperform those two factory racers as well.
I dont know about that one. At least on comparable tires. Put some full slicks on the ACR and you have a battle on your hands if not pwnage for the Cup by the ACR.
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__________________ The GT-R is harder to drift than a 997 TT or 997 GT3, therefore if you are trying to drift, the GT-R will consequently get a faster lap. Normal apexing and driving not included.
I dont know about that one. At least on comparable tires. Put some full slicks on the ACR and you have a battle on your hands if not pwnage for the Cup by the ACR.
I don't think there would be any ownage, but the lighter weight cup should be able to prevail over say a sprint
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08 Cayenne TT
07 997 tt To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
A sprint is more beneficial to the ACR. I'd take the longevity of the Cup over a longer distance where the weight wont take it's toll as much.
But for pure speed, the ACR could certainly beat a factory spec cup car on the same tires depending on the track. They certainly are on the same level though.
__________________ The GT-R is harder to drift than a 997 TT or 997 GT3, therefore if you are trying to drift, the GT-R will consequently get a faster lap. Normal apexing and driving not included.
In the original black and white movie, he was killed by the "oxygen destroyer", the deal that turned the fish to skeletons. I was watching the original, the one with "Perry Mason", back in the late 50's as a young child living in Los Angeles. I saw the latest remake with "Ferris Beuller", not so good. In the original, there was no baby hatching out of the egg after Godzilla's demise to take her place.
That is not the original film. It's an edited version for western audiences. My point stands.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldGuy
I would buy an English car before the GT-R AND get better reliability.
I will have an Aston. Is there a movie where the English were left standing?
Ok, ignore my very, very obvious questions. Has Steve not replied or something?
Great, you would choose a British car over a GT-R for reliability (), and of all the choices you pick an Aston. That would be the same Aston Martin that suffered multiple launch control issues, recalls, diving into the Volvo and Ford spare part bins etc?
I asked you about your figures, Steve's opinion about the GT-R vs. PDK, your opinion on the GT-R and GT2 telemetry laps...no reply. You could of course write this off as "I'm not really interested...", but somebody who has "been in contact" with Steve on this issue would surely try harder to disprove my point and actually substantiate their position.
Still, it seems we are agreed on the pedigree of the DR drivers.
As far as movies where the British are left standing, here is a small hint. Check out if they have made any films about Rorke's Drift, Waterloo, Agincourt, Trafalgar, the Battle of Britain, Goose Green etc. I'm sure there are a few.
Quote:
Originally Posted by heavychevy
Z07, you have to know that when you get banned, your posts will disappear again. So why do you keep typing???
And in response to you querry on the DR, it was two different drivers on two different days, a nice sunny day for the GT-R and a gloomy overcast day for the GT2. I dont know the other guy, but Harris seems a pretty good driver. But still two different guys on very different days.
If you are implying I am somebody who has been banned from here before, you are wrong. That's twice now I have been accused of this. Actually, you are not implying but accusing. I'm legit and any mod can verify this via obvious checks or if they choose to pm me and explain in greater detail who I am.
Regarding that GT2 and GT-R time (quite some praise that the GT-R is being compared to the GT2 now, not just the 997TT) and the tenth of a second difference. You are aware I hope that certain settings on a camera can have an effect that some videos appear slightly different that others. But let's run with a cold day against a warm day. Which is not strictly the case, trust me, but still, for the sake of this arguement, we'll go with that.
How would you personally offset the difference between track temp and air density at Silverstone? Harris, Meadon and Bovingdon have all driven the GT-R, all three know how to move a 911 quickly around a track. Yet here are the findings.
You have stated that Harris seems a "pretty good driver". Are you sure you said this about Chris in the past? That is Chris, formerly of Autocar, the big Porsche fan, owner, driver and Porsche racer who did the vid review for AC with Iain's stock, non-press car GT-R. That is the same Chris who wrote about the GT-R vs 911TT in AC a few weeks later that (although having alot of fair-won praise for the 997TT in this and other articles) :
"But it's no secret that Nissan pursued the 997 Turbo as its benchmark during the GT-R's development, so it seems entirely fair to place it against that car, regardless of the price differential. Even if they were equally priced, any objective assessment of these vehicles' attributes would have to conclude that the Nissan was the better car. Remarkable, but true."
"There is a spooky air of invincibility about the GT-R, and that's what validates the 'baby-Veyron' comparison. The Bugatti is the only other vehicle I've driven that provided such staggering on-demand performance, such a feeling of omnipotence. Somehow it seems unfair to mention that the R35 costs a fair chunk less than half the sum Porsche wants for a new 997 Turbo with ceramic brakes. Progress is thrilling for the consumer but cruel to the competition. The Turbo must respond, and soon, because the GT-R is the undisputed winner here."
----Autocar, Chris Harris
Looking at your sig, I'm not 100% convinced you actually know what you are talking about in regards to British motoring journalists. Barry holds the infield Rockingham time for a 997TT, yet when he takes both the GT-R and 997TT around that circuit for Car magazine, he makes an appearence in your sig because strictly on video evidence, you seem to think it was all a ploy. Strangely enough, so does Meadon figure in your sig(now of DR, formerly EVO, who took the GT-3 around Bedford with all his experience and was faster in a off-the-boat GT-R whilst at EVO).
You raise some very valid points regarding the 7:29 lap that I agree with, but perpetually jumping to conclusions based soley on figures and videos is perhaps a bit naive.
Last edited by ItsAllTorque; 10-29-2008 at 09:29 PM.
If you are implying I am somebody who has been banned from here before, you are wrong. That's twice now I have been accused of this. Actually, you are not implying but accusing. I'm legit and any mod can verify this via obvious checks or if they choose to pm me and explain in greater detail who I am.
Regarding that GT2 and GT-R time (quite some praise that the GT-R is being compared to the GT2 now, not just the 997TT) and the tenth of a second difference. You are aware I hope that certain settings on a camera can have an effect that some videos appear slightly different that others. But let's run with a cold day against a warm day. Which is not strictly the case, trust me, but still, for the sake of this arguement, we'll go with that.
How would you personally offset the difference between track temp and air density at Silverstone? Harris, Meadon and Bovingdon have all driven the GT-R, all three know how to move a 911 quickly around a track. Yet here are the findings.
You have stated that Harris seems a "pretty good driver". Are you sure you said this about Chris in the past? That is Chris, formerly of Autocar, the big Porsche fan, owner, driver and Porsche racer who did the vid review for AC with Iain's stock, non-press car GT-R. That is the same Chris who wrote about the GT-R vs 911TT in AC a few weeks later that (although having alot of fair-won praise for the 997TT in this and other articles) :
"But it's no secret that Nissan pursued the 997 Turbo as its benchmark during the GT-R's development, so it seems entirely fair to place it against that car, regardless of the price differential. Even if they were equally priced, any objective assessment of these vehicles' attributes would have to conclude that the Nissan was the better car. Remarkable, but true."
"There is a spooky air of invincibility about the GT-R, and that's what validates the 'baby-Veyron' comparison. The Bugatti is the only other vehicle I've driven that provided such staggering on-demand performance, such a feeling of omnipotence. Somehow it seems unfair to mention that the R35 costs a fair chunk less than half the sum Porsche wants for a new 997 Turbo with ceramic brakes. Progress is thrilling for the consumer but cruel to the competition. The Turbo must respond, and soon, because the GT-R is the undisputed winner here."
----Autocar, Chris Harris
Looking at your sig, I'm not 100% convinced you actually know what you are talking about in regards to British motoring journalists. Barry holds the infield Rockingham time for a 997TT, yet when he takes both the GT-R and 997TT around that circuit for Car magazine, he makes an appearence in your sig because strictly on video evidence, you seem to think it was all a ploy. Strangely enough, so does Meadon figure in your sig(now of DR, formerly EVO, who took the GT-3 around Bedford with all his experience and was faster in a off-the-boat GT-R whilst at EVO).
You raise some very valid points regarding the 7:29 lap that I agree with, but perpetually jumping to conclusions based soley on figures and videos is perhaps a bit naive.
You showed up EXACTLY at the moment that Z07 got banned, so it seemed obvious since he's done that before. Could be wrong, you seem more intelligent anyways. At least for now.
But
You seem to know a low about my post history, so you have to have treaded here before, and either been banned or as the rest say "lurking for a long time"
As far as Chris Harris is concerned, I have never criticized his driving, only the dumbest test I've ever seen by Autocar. One out lap and a hot lap in 32* weather while the GT3 was on MPSC which had no chance of getting temp in that period of time. Go check for yourself. I will say this, anyone worth their salt would know the GT3 would struggle on cold MPSC for one lap. Dont think I dont understand the politics of the media, I know it all too well. I dont care how good of a driver Chris is, that test was plumb stupid. Unless Chris owns the mag and makes the decisions I have no beef with him.
With Barry the video clearly shows drifting, and one telemetry that has the 997 TT many mph slower than the GT-R and even the M3 by several mph. That is utter BS combined with the vid that shows the guy drifting the course in the TT prior to the hot lap runs and during the hot lap too. There is mountains of easily viewable evidence that the British press is trash. But I've been through all of that before as you seem to know, so use the search feature. You seem to know what I've posted so you should also know where to find it.
BTW what is an infield record for a 997 TT? In what sanctioned body against what drivers? That makes no sense whatsoever.
As for Meadon, if that was him driving for EVO with the GT3 drifting a white cloud of smoke across the line and nearly coming to a halt in the Chicane, then I dont have any respect for his ability, or at least his integrity. That was some of the worst driving I've ever seen. And several guys who track and race Porsches agree with me. If it's that easy to see on video, then he has some serious issues, whether intentional or not. Watch the video again from Evo and tell me what you think, if you in fact have track experience.
__________________ The GT-R is harder to drift than a 997 TT or 997 GT3, therefore if you are trying to drift, the GT-R will consequently get a faster lap. Normal apexing and driving not included.
See Evo and Car magazine for details.
Last edited by heavychevy; 10-29-2008 at 10:37 PM.
There is mountains of easily viewable evidence that the British press is trash.
What you are seeing on the videos is what makes entertaining viewing, not necessarily the hot lap.
It is ridiculous to suggest that the drivers and journalists would deliberately drive a slow and sideways lap in one car in order to unfairly advantage another.
What about all the other tests in UK magazines where on the same day, in the same weather, with the same driver, the GT-R has been quicker than the competition?
That is not the original film. It's an edited version for western audiences. My point stands.
Ok, ignore my very, very obvious questions. Has Steve not replied or something?
Great, you would choose a British car over a GT-R for reliability (), and of all the choices you pick an Aston. That would be the same Aston Martin that suffered multiple launch control issues, recalls, diving into the Volvo and Ford spare part bins etc?
I asked you about your figures, Steve's opinion about the GT-R vs. PDK, your opinion on the GT-R and GT2 telemetry laps...no reply. You could of course write this off as "I'm not really interested...", but somebody who has "been in contact" with Steve on this issue would surely try harder to disprove my point and actually substantiate their position.
Still, it seems we are agreed on the pedigree of the DR drivers.
As far as movies where the British are left standing, here is a small hint. Check out if they have made any films about Rorke's Drift, Waterloo, Agincourt, Trafalgar, the Battle of Britain, Goose Green etc. I'm sure there are a few.
If you are implying I am somebody who has been banned from here before, you are wrong. That's twice now I have been accused of this. Actually, you are not implying but accusing. I'm legit and any mod can verify this via obvious checks or if they choose to pm me and explain in greater detail who I am.
Regarding that GT2 and GT-R time (quite some praise that the GT-R is being compared to the GT2 now, not just the 997TT) and the tenth of a second difference. You are aware I hope that certain settings on a camera can have an effect that some videos appear slightly different that others. But let's run with a cold day against a warm day. Which is not strictly the case, trust me, but still, for the sake of this arguement, we'll go with that.
How would you personally offset the difference between track temp and air density at Silverstone? Harris, Meadon and Bovingdon have all driven the GT-R, all three know how to move a 911 quickly around a track. Yet here are the findings.
You have stated that Harris seems a "pretty good driver". Are you sure you said this about Chris in the past? That is Chris, formerly of Autocar, the big Porsche fan, owner, driver and Porsche racer who did the vid review for AC with Iain's stock, non-press car GT-R. That is the same Chris who wrote about the GT-R vs 911TT in AC a few weeks later that (although having alot of fair-won praise for the 997TT in this and other articles) :
"But it's no secret that Nissan pursued the 997 Turbo as its benchmark during the GT-R's development, so it seems entirely fair to place it against that car, regardless of the price differential. Even if they were equally priced, any objective assessment of these vehicles' attributes would have to conclude that the Nissan was the better car. Remarkable, but true."
"There is a spooky air of invincibility about the GT-R, and that's what validates the 'baby-Veyron' comparison. The Bugatti is the only other vehicle I've driven that provided such staggering on-demand performance, such a feeling of omnipotence. Somehow it seems unfair to mention that the R35 costs a fair chunk less than half the sum Porsche wants for a new 997 Turbo with ceramic brakes. Progress is thrilling for the consumer but cruel to the competition. The Turbo must respond, and soon, because the GT-R is the undisputed winner here."
----Autocar, Chris Harris
Looking at your sig, I'm not 100% convinced you actually know what you are talking about in regards to British motoring journalists. Barry holds the infield Rockingham time for a 997TT, yet when he takes both the GT-R and 997TT around that circuit for Car magazine, he makes an appearence in your sig because strictly on video evidence, you seem to think it was all a ploy. Strangely enough, so does Meadon figure in your sig(now of DR, formerly EVO, who took the GT-3 around Bedford with all his experience and was faster in a off-the-boat GT-R whilst at EVO).
You raise some very valid points regarding the 7:29 lap that I agree with, but perpetually jumping to conclusions based soley on figures and videos is perhaps a bit naive.
I know which one you are talking about.It was released in Japan in 1954, and to release it to America in 1956 they added a few scenes with the fellow who played Perry Mason. It was an anti-war,anti-nuclear weapons movie as much as anything (they were still reeling from Nagasaki and Hiroshima). They kill Godzilla in the end, and warn against the use of any more nuclear weapons because it might happen again. Godzilla was killed, end of story. Back then they didn't make movies with a sequel in mind. You don't need to read any more into it than that. Just a simple death.
What you are seeing on the videos is what makes entertaining viewing, not necessarily the hot lap.
It is ridiculous to suggest that the drivers and journalists would deliberately drive a slow and sideways lap in one car in order to unfairly advantage another.
What about all the other tests in UK magazines where on the same day, in the same weather, with the same driver, the GT-R has been quicker than the competition?
It must be one pretty big conspiracy.
I know the difference between what's the hot lap and what's not.
I'm glad I know now that Meadon was driving the GT2 instead of Harris, now we know why the GT2 wasnt as fast as it should have been.
What "other" mag times are you talking about, I thought we covered them.
Evo
Autocar
Car
DR
Or how about Top Gear who had never tested a car that wasnt released to the British Market until the GT-R which they went to Japan to get? Who knows, they may have brought back Suzuki and put him in the stig suit.
We all know the stig has changed a few times over the course of this show, so not only could there be different drivers in the car, they drive no matter what the conditions. Not buying that either.
But if it makes you feel any better, US press hasnt been much better.
__________________ The GT-R is harder to drift than a 997 TT or 997 GT3, therefore if you are trying to drift, the GT-R will consequently get a faster lap. Normal apexing and driving not included.
Yeah, it's all a big conspiracy by the international press to keep these forum discussions heated and cut into the productivity of the American worker. As soon as the posting slows down, the press has to come up with another story on the GT-R beating a 911 or Corvette.
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2003 Mercedes-Benz E55 AMG (Pulley, Tune, HE)
2005 BMW X3 3.0i
2006 Mitsubishi Evo MR 306whp - Sold
2005 Honda S2000 CTSC 278whp - Sold
Somehow, I don't think Porsche really cares as much about the "Nurburgring Trials" as they would have us believe. They just turned VW into the most valuable company in the world for a short time, and made a few billion euros for their trouble:
If Nissan had 50 kg of testing equipment then should easily be able to provide the telemetry and case will be closed.
But yes posted already.
__________________ The GT-R is harder to drift than a 997 TT or 997 GT3, therefore if you are trying to drift, the GT-R will consequently get a faster lap. Normal apexing and driving not included.
), and of all the choices you pick an Aston. That would be the same Aston Martin that suffered multiple launch control issues, recalls, diving into the Volvo and Ford spare part bins etc?
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