997 TT beats GT-R at Ring. Nissan accused of cheating.
997 Turbo / GT22004–present Turbo discussion on the current model Porsche 911 Twin Turbo. Sponsored By SharkWerks, Inc
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They made a great car, but it seems all they cared about was 0-60 numbers and Ring times.. They forgot that these cars were going into the hands of "average Joe" consumers and made the car way to delicate. I think because of this most people get the car expecting it to be as cool as the R33-34 and then just get disappointed and sell the car.
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I think the "delicate" issue. Other than repeated launch control use/abuse, I have not heard of any issues. Even then, the numbers are small. Don't get me wrong-- I'm not happy about the few stories I have heard about denied warranty claims for trannies.
In fact, I called NNA to complain about it and et assurances about their policies. I think they are figuring out hat their official position will be, but they told me that (i) only a small number of cars have had issue, (ii) they have only denied claims for excessive LC (which they refer to as "VDC Off" because that mode turns off the tranny protection system and allows LC), and (iii) excessive means "many more then 30" uses.
Does anybody out there think Porsche will cover 30+ 5K clutch-drop launches in their Turbo when it gets PDK?
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'07 997TT EVOMS EVT-700
'09 Nissan GT-R (Sold back under Lemon Law)
'06 BMW M5 (E60)
'06 Civic Hybrid
'08 Acura MDX
The GT-R is NOT a better car, I think that's been covered already. Need we go through that again?
For the small % of people that can afford to buy and track the GT-R (which is no small feat), they'll have a CHANCE of beating the TT on the track which is only a fraction of the time you'll be in the car. The other 95+% other than getting a months worth of groceries for a family of 4 suggest the TT is WITHOUT A DOUBT the better car.
The GT-R is a one trick pony. FWIW it was a two trick pony, but one trick voids the warranty. The TT is still the best all around luxury car on the market. Still two different leagues of car. And still the Porsche is the better car.
And what little advantage the GT-R may percievably have will be undoubtedly wiped out with the new iteration.
HC, I'm wondering if even the second "trick" is really valid. The GTR is probably the easier car to learn to drive fast, but what good is that if it blows up after a few laps of hard driving. We still don't have any data in terms of how it holds up under sustained competition.
HC, I'm wondering if even the second "trick" is really valid. The GTR is probably the easier car to learn to drive fast, but what good is that if it blows up after a few laps of hard driving. We still don't have any data in terms of how it holds up under sustained competition.
That's true of any all-new model. Only time will tell. No particular reason to worry. I have not heard of any car having any mechanical failure on track or as a result of being on track.
Mine has been driven hard for about 500-600 track miles with no issues. That's not a lot, I realize, but it is some indication that it is not a fragile car.
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'07 997TT EVOMS EVT-700
'09 Nissan GT-R (Sold back under Lemon Law)
'06 BMW M5 (E60)
'06 Civic Hybrid
'08 Acura MDX
The Cayman, for example, came out in 2006. It did extremely well at The 2007 Nurburgring 24, so well in fact, that Porsche threatened their own customers with the prospect of withdrawal of support, so you saw none at the 2008 race. The GTR was born and bred on the 'ring. So it ought to be ready to prove something there, other than one fast lap under questionable conditions. It needs to show up at the 24 hour 'ring and prove it self. I know the Caymans were highly modified, but Nissan can modify the GTR under the same rules. If it takes the first 5 places, it would shut a lot of us up. At least I would think. I want to see it offer proof under standardized conditions for everyone. One GTR didn't look too bad at the rally in Australia, or was it Tasmania. But then, there was One-Lap also. And then there was von Saurma's lap. And then the lap by the Porsche engineer. So far all we have is "gobbledegook". We need more proof.
NAGTROC is American. Americans are bizarrely hung up on performance figures.
Elsewhere, how the thing actually drives is infinitely more important than a fraction of a sceond in the quarter mile, to 60 or some entirely pointless skidpan number. The reason the GT-R has been praised has very little to do with performance figures.
A high proportion of future GT-R owners in the UK are currently Porsche owners. None I have spoken too has regretted their choice after driving the car (actually driving - not spouting numbers they have read on the internet or making a decision based on some YouTube video or the retarded comments made thereon).
And a basic 911 costs $256,248 USD in Singapore, what's your point ?
The fanboys know the GTR is crap compared to 911, it's just too heavy on their tongue that they can't admit it.
I don't know if you're actually that stupid or intentionally dense.
You referred to a GT3 being 100k in comparison to the GTR being more than that absolute figure. Now you claim that you never mentioned it was in dollars, in which case, a GTR starts at ~£52,000 for the regular model and ~£55000 for the premium (before the price increase) in the UK. That still puts it well below a GT3 at £100k as you now claimed...either way, your argument fails.
Also what in the hell does a Singapore price have to do with it, this isn't about absolute values, but relative ones. Boy you sure are clever. No way to poke a hole in that bulletproof logic...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizuno
Hello ? have you noticed that I didn't bother using a $ sign ? I don't have a british keyboard smart ass!
You can copy and paste the '£' sign. I know that's a pretty complicated process, especially for a lowly "G35 owner like me" to figure out. But good work suggesting that you didn't post it because it wasn't on your keyboard. Top notch reasoning, way to be outsmarted by the ol' Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V maneuver.
"Oh noes! I didn't have the right keyboard to make my completely failed point, woe is me..."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizuno
WOW!
I didn't know G35 owners could distinguish between dollar & sterling
Now go back to your cave and find a new excuse, then come back so that we can enjoy laughing at you and the rest of the dreamers/fanboys.
Are you now attacking a complete group of people's intelligence based on the car they drive? I'm sorry what do you do again? What Porsche do you own? How many times have you driven a GTR?
Exactly.
Way to try to play the elitist card not realizing it makes you look more like a pompous ass than makes me look unintelligent. I wasn't aware that people started right out buying Porsches from day 1 of their lives. Apparently a TT was your first car you bought right?? No?
You don't know what I do or anything about me, yet you classify me into a group and assume I will never be able to afford a Porsche. Wow yes, in fact it is a dream of mine to own one, one day, didn't know dreaming was a sign of stupidity...
But I, being poor, have only my dreams;
I have spread my dreams under your feet,
Tread softly because you tread on my dreams.
You my friend are another classic example of someone who tries to come off as blindingly intelligent by over using sarcasm, but instead has it blow up in their face as soon as someone actually responds to your idiotic comments.
Come back with an opinion when you've driven both (or even one of them).
Until then it's all just keyboard-warrior rubbish, and contrary to the opinion of pretty much every independent motoring journalist in the world.
Mag reporters driving the car for one day are supposed to tell if one car is better than another by usually crappy driving on a road course?
THESE ARE STREET CARS, NOT RACE CARS.
On top of that, do the magazines mention that the GT-R costs more to maintain than the TT, thereby after tracking it for a while you negate the MSRP advantage? Do they take into account the clunky shifting on the street? The harsher ride, Nissan service, or the fact that the 0-60 times they (the magazine) is advertising cant be done without voiding the warranty? Do they even mention the TT is still easily faster in the context that most will use them both (highway blasts etc)? How about the creaks and rattles? I'm sure you saw what happend to the long term test car, they had to POS it lots of times.
You must be kidding if you think a mag test after one day of driving can tell you what is a better car, because obviously with this Nissan, there is more than meets the eye. If you could see past magazines, you'd be able to discern that for yourself.
__________________ The GT-R is harder to drift than a 997 TT or 997 GT3, therefore if you are trying to drift, the GT-R will consequently get a faster lap. Normal apexing and driving not included.
This is just silliness at it best really. While Porsche was accusing Nissan of Cheating,Chevrolet made no accusions,they went old school ,just put the ZR1 on the Nurb and it wiped pretty much everything ,Now what is Chervolet also cheating. Anyways let the silly games continue.
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Mercedes-Benz CLS55 KLEEMANN Wht on Tan=Drive Me,AMV8 Infa Red
Porsche 996 GT2=Gone but not forgotten. Porsche Carrera GT Black on Red=Bad,Very Bad Girl.Ranger Rover Vogue
Let there be Torque.
While Porsche was accusing Nissan of Cheating,Chevrolet made no accusions,they went old school ,just put the ZR1 on the Nurb and it wiped pretty much everything
Except that pesky Dodge, which is still 0.3s quicker than the Chevy.
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2003 Mercedes-Benz E55 AMG (Pulley, Tune, HE)
2005 BMW X3 3.0i
2006 Mitsubishi Evo MR 306whp - Sold
2005 Honda S2000 CTSC 278whp - Sold
I don't know if you're actually that stupid or intentionally dense.
You referred to a GT3 being 100k in comparison to the GTR being more than that absolute figure. Now you claim that you never mentioned it was in dollars, in which case, a GTR starts at ~£52,000 for the regular model and ~£55000 for the premium (before the price increase) in the UK. That still puts it well below a GT3 at £100k as you now claimed...either way, your argument fails.
Also what in the hell does a Singapore price have to do with it, this isn't about absolute values, but relative ones. Boy you sure are clever. No way to poke a hole in that bulletproof logic...
You can copy and paste the '£' sign. I know that's a pretty complicated process, especially for a lowly "G35 owner like me" to figure out. But good work suggesting that you didn't post it because it wasn't on your keyboard. Top notch reasoning, way to be outsmarted by the ol' Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V maneuver.
"Oh noes! I didn't have the right keyboard to make my completely failed point, woe is me..."
Are you now attacking a complete group of people's intelligence based on the car they drive? I'm sorry what do you do again? What Porsche do you own? How many times have you driven a GTR?
Exactly.
Way to try to play the elitist card not realizing it makes you look more like a pompous ass than makes me look unintelligent. I wasn't aware that people started right out buying Porsches from day 1 of their lives. Apparently a TT was your first car you bought right?? No?
You don't know what I do or anything about me, yet you classify me into a group and assume I will never be able to afford a Porsche. Wow yes, in fact it is a dream of mine to own one, one day, didn't know dreaming was a sign of stupidity...
But I, being poor, have only my dreams; I have spread my dreams under your feet, Tread softly because you tread on my dreams.
You my friend are another classic example of someone who tries to come off as blindingly intelligent by over using sarcasm, but instead has it blow up in their face as soon as someone actually responds to your idiotic comments.
Good try.
Bahahahahahahahahaha, sorry I don't feel like reading all of this booboo crap you typed (probably 99% is Off-Topic) nobody needs any lessons from a loser that comes out of his hole and disappears for couple of weeks.
Save your stupidity for yourself, I don't wanna end up buying a Nissan/Infiniti smart-ass!
Mag reporters driving the car for one day are supposed to tell if one car is better than another by usually crappy driving on a road course?
THESE ARE STREET CARS, NOT RACE CARS.
US magazines may only drive them on track; UK magazines categorically do not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by heavychevy
On top of that, do the magazines mention that the GT-R costs more to maintain than the TT, thereby after tracking it for a while you negate the MSRP advantage?
Have you ever had a Porsche serviced at an official dealership? In the UK (at least) I would be hugely surprised if servicing costs are similar.
Quote:
Originally Posted by heavychevy
Do they take into account the clunky shifting on the street? The harsher ride, Nissan service
I'd forgotten that you had extensive experience of driving one. Nissan service - to date, the dealer I have ordered with have been pretty good (although they obviously haven't done much). There are ten specialist "High Performance Centres" which sell and will service the car in the UK.
Quote:
Originally Posted by heavychevy
or the fact that the 0-60 times they (the magazine) is advertising cant be done without voiding the warranty?
As has been said, relevant only to rednecks and teenagers on the internet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by heavychevy
Do they even mention the TT is still easily faster in the context that most will use them both (highway blasts etc)?
On real journeys, on real roads, I'm 100% convinced that the GT-R will be the faster car. Again, I don't buy a car so that I can film some pointless "race" with other rednecks and put it on YouTube for idiots on the internet to "argue" about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by heavychevy
How about the creaks and rattles?
We'll see I suppose. The two I have driven had lived hard lives, but felt tight and were rattle-free. Obviously, compared to that paragon of build and materials quality that is the Corvette ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by heavychevy
You must be kidding if you think a mag test after one day of driving can tell you what is a better car, because obviously with this Nissan, there is more than meets the eye. If you could see past magazines, you'd be able to discern that for yourself.
UK reviews actually use the car on the road and the track. That is what makes them more relevant. If you could see past your blinkers, you'd be able to discern that for yourself.
@ the thread resurrection after the page 85 lull. 100! 100! 
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