997 TT beats GT-R at Ring. Nissan accused of cheating.
997 Turbo / GT22004–present Turbo discussion on the current model Porsche 911 Twin Turbo. Sponsored By SharkWerks, Inc
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US magazines may only drive them on track; UK magazines categorically do not. Who cares, still too limited to take into all the factors that make a car truly better. And since there are so many drastic issues surfacing, that couldnt be found on a one day test drive, it makes perfect sense that they cant make such a declaration.
Ask edmunds what they think after testing one long term. Were they not the media, the warranty would have been void from LC!!!!!!
20k OUT OF POCKET!!!!!!!!!
Have you ever had a Porsche serviced at an official dealership? In the UK (at least) I would be hugely surprised if servicing costs are similar.
Yes I have, and it doesnt cost as much as the Nissan, which is really bad. Maybe if you said Ferrari you'd be closer.
I'd forgotten that you had extensive experience of driving one. Nissan service - to date, the dealer I have ordered with have been pretty good (although they obviously haven't done much). There are ten specialist "High Performance Centres" which sell and will service the car in the UK. Cars delivered with chipped wheels, paint peeling, salt deposits, engine decay, on open trailers and one guy who's not even allowed to work on the car at the dealer so you have to wait for Japanese techs to fly in for anything other than POS type services. The same guy that had only two weeks training on the car.
I could go on.
As has been said, relevant only to rednecks and teenagers on the internet. LOL, now the people who want to achieve what Nissan got advertised are redneck and teenagers?? HAHHAAH, pathetic.
It wast obviously important to Nissan to take the risk to advertise it. didnt know they had Japanese rednecks.
On real journeys, on real roads, I'm 100% convinced that the GT-R will be the faster car. Again, I don't buy a car so that I can film some pointless "race" with other rednecks and put it on YouTube for idiots on the internet to "argue" about.
Run out of constructive things to say as a rebuttal, so you attack people who want a realistic (meaning as advertised car)?
We'll see I suppose. The two I have driven had lived hard lives, but felt tight and were rattle-free. Obviously, compared to that paragon of build and materials quality that is the Corvette ... This isnt about the Corvette. Again diversions.
UK reviews actually use the car on the road and the track. That is what makes them more relevant. If you could see past your blinkers, you'd be able to discern that for yourself.
Even the UK mags only have limited testing and dont do detailed ownership reviews that include ALL factors.
You are losing sorely, and getting desperate. Give it up.
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__________________ The GT-R is harder to drift than a 997 TT or 997 GT3, therefore if you are trying to drift, the GT-R will consequently get a faster lap. Normal apexing and driving not included.
What I find funny Heavychevy is that you discredit all performance figures/accolades that mags and owners test, but acknowledge all the mishaps from the same sources. You've yet to drive a GT-R and confidently made your mind up on it. Just doesn't make sense to me, especially when someone like you comes off as one that relies only on his self-assessments to come up with conclusions. I do agree with you in the GT-R's doubtful ring times, Nissan's somewhat misleading advertisements, stipulations, and associated costs, though I don't doubt its capabilities. The whole LC controversy is also ridiculous. Common sense would tell you that launching any car a number of times will cause immense stress to the drivetrain and imminent failure. Doing that in relatively new, unproven DSG technology is playing with fire. How many Porsche owners would launch their car even after knowing their car is capable of that? Even they wouldn't do it knowing how much replacement parts cost. The only conclusion I can come up with you is that you've always hated car! Not fair when it comes to un-biased arguments.
This is just silliness at it best really. While Porsche was accusing Nissan of Cheating,Chevrolet made no accusions,they went old school ,just put the ZR1 on the Nurb and it wiped pretty much everything ,Now what is Chervolet also cheating. Anyways let the silly games continue.
Porsche is not concerned that the ZR1 turned a fast lap at the 'ring. The chevy has the power and low weight to suggest that it is capable of turning some quick times. They did take issue with Nissan for obviously cheating in order to make themselves look good at Porsche's expense. They had every right to call them out. Chevy is making a big mistake however. The ZR1 is going to be killed by the new CAFE standards. Porsche however, is looking to the future and developing beautiful, solid sports cars that give you more performance with less fuel and pollutants. Porsche is looking toward the future while the others are worrying about going faster at the ring, which does nothing in terms of keeping them in the black for years to come. They can't even sell the ZR1s they have built due to the economy. Porsche was also far sighted enough to take control of VW. Now they not only ensure that their largest supplier will be around for a while and remain in friendly hands, they now also have the resources of Europe's largest car manufacturer to draw upon. And they made several billion for their trouble. That hardly looks silly to me.
You are losing sorely, and getting desperate. Give it up.
You are churning out the same rabid, fanatical nonsense, time after time.
You have NO experience of the car whatsoever - you haven't even driven one! All you "know" is what you choose to infer, and then embellish and exaggerate, from selected places elsewhere on the internet.
If magazine tests are now pointless, why do you read them, and then make interminable posts about their findings (including the unintelligible rubbish in your signature)?
Why do you place so much emphasis on the performance figures obtained by the same magazine testers you have so little respect for?
How do you ever actually buy a car if you form an opinion without ever even sitting in it, but then state that you only know if a car is good once you've owned it long-term?
Quite ridiculous.
A few words of advice - you don't win an argument by putting those stupid smilies and dozens of exclamation marks into your posts. It just reinforces the weakness of what you are trying to say.
Bahahahahahahahahaha, sorry I don't feel like reading all of this booboo crap you typed (probably 99% is Off-Topic) nobody needs any lessons from a loser that comes out of his hole and disappears for couple of weeks.
Save your stupidity for yourself, I don't wanna end up buying a Nissan/Infiniti smart-ass!
I expected nothing less from you, a long set of hahahahaha and a to top it off just in case we didn't figure out that was laughter. Nothing of substance.
Your lack of anything to say back to me is just that much funnier and a testament to just how right I was.
But no, considering the pages and pages of discussion here, you resort to "Your post is too long" as an excuse to cover up that you read my post but had nothing worthwhile to retort with. What did you run out of clever? No more of that rock solid logic to share? Yea, no that'd be too much to ask.
But yes, you're right, that's the real issue, too much for you to read...one medium sized post in a 1000+ post thread. Right. Flawless logic once again.
A few paragraphs at a couple sentences each, would take even an average reader only about a minute to read. That's too much time I suppose when someone is embarrassing you in every right with every sentence. Too much for you too handle.
Anyways, still waiting on your super elite credentials that makes me so beneath you. I just want to know what to shoot for in my dreams.
God knows your Mizuno screen name and GTR sig is just oh so rampantly clever. How did you come up with all that? It's genius, just sheer genius. Especially the really big numbers, just wow, BRIL-LI-ANT!
__________________ 2006 G35 6MT
Last edited by stradaONE8; 11-02-2008 at 05:10 PM.
What I find funny Heavychevy is that you discredit all performance figures/accolades that mags and owners test, but acknowledge all the mishaps from the same sources. You've yet to drive a GT-R and confidently made your mind up on it. Just doesn't make sense to me, especially when someone like you comes off as one that relies only on his self-assessments to come up with conclusions. I do agree with you in the GT-R's doubtful ring times, Nissan's somewhat misleading advertisements, stipulations, and associated costs, though I don't doubt its capabilities. The whole LC controversy is also ridiculous. Common sense would tell you that launching any car a number of times will cause immense stress to the drivetrain and imminent failure. Doing that in relatively new, unproven DSG technology is playing with fire. How many Porsche owners would launch their car even after knowing their car is capable of that? Even they wouldn't do it knowing how much replacement parts cost. The only conclusion I can come up with you is that you've always hated car! Not fair when it comes to un-biased arguments.
You act as if it takes the same level of talent to pilot a car as it does to type an article, or tell people that the car broke down several times. Last I heard writing about cars does not give you the ability to drive them.
It's obvious the mags are promoting the launch control and people cant use it, does that make them beyond reproach even though many of them already know the problems with the tranny and warranty issue? Some things the mags are good for, some they are not, and the abilities vary from one mag to the next. I dont discount ALL the mag tests, only the ones that have specific questionable tactics. Just seems like all of them since there are so many.
On top of that, the tiptronic in the 997 TT has launch control, and is almost as heavy and runs faster 1/4 mile and as fast 0-60. OVER and OVER and OVER again. And is allowable under warranty. What excuse does Nissan have there? Surely a faster lap time isnt making the tranny fail. So what justification are you seeking?
I've said multiple times I dont like the GT-R, and the reasons why. Never said my opinion was unbiased either, you mistakenly drew that conclusion on your own.
Anything else?
__________________ The GT-R is harder to drift than a 997 TT or 997 GT3, therefore if you are trying to drift, the GT-R will consequently get a faster lap. Normal apexing and driving not included.
You are churning out the same rabid, fanatical nonsense, time after time.
You have NO experience of the car whatsoever - you haven't even driven one! All you "know" is what you choose to infer, and then embellish and exaggerate, from selected places elsewhere on the internet.
If magazine tests are now pointless, why do you read them, and then make interminable posts about their findings (including the unintelligible rubbish in your signature)?
Why do you place so much emphasis on the performance figures obtained by the same magazine testers you have so little respect for?
How do you ever actually buy a car if you form an opinion without ever even sitting in it, but then state that you only know if a car is good once you've owned it long-term?
Quite ridiculous.
A few words of advice - you don't win an argument by putting those stupid smilies and dozens of exclamation marks into your posts. It just reinforces the weakness of what you are trying to say.
Back to this huh?
Do I need to have driven a Z06 to know that lots of people have had:
Tranny
Roof
Motor
Brake
Rear End
Intake
Torque Management
and various other issues, the tires suck, as does the shifting, and that the interior is cheap????
For the same reason, I dont need to drive the GT-R to know that Nissan has manipulated the media to get there car sold. Driving it wont tell otherwise now will it?
Driving the GT-R wont tell me that Evo didnt drift the GT3 in that magazine camparo now will it?
Driving the GT-R wont tell me that Car and Driver manipulated the trap speed now will it?
See a pattern here dufus? The only things I comment on are the ones I can make conclusions on without having driven the car. Because someone let you drive gingerly around a parking lot or the block or even if they had the courage to let you drive it at the track wont refute anything I've said, and nor will it if I sat in one.
So you can take that nonsense you're selling and pedal it somewhere else.
__________________ The GT-R is harder to drift than a 997 TT or 997 GT3, therefore if you are trying to drift, the GT-R will consequently get a faster lap. Normal apexing and driving not included.
See Evo and Car magazine for details.
Last edited by heavychevy; 11-02-2008 at 06:05 PM.
HC: There have been a dozen or so comparos with the 997TT and GT-R in them. Which ones do you agree with, exactly? I don't recall you agreeing with any article showing the GT-R to be faster around the track than the 997TT.
Wouldn't it be odd / require an elaborate conspiracy if ALL the comparo articles were flawed?
Could there be another explanation? Perhaps your unwillingness to internalize data that conflicts with your strongly-held bias?
I, and I think others, do not reject the data that is unfavorable to the GT-R. We consider it in the overall mix. You alone seem to be obsessed with finding fault with virtually any test/factoid that shows the GT-R to be faster.
The GT-R is not necessarily "better" (that's amorphous/subjective). Stock for stock, it just happens to be faster than the 997TT around the track. Am I wrong here? No one seems to be confronting the core issue here.
Protestations that these are not track cars are silly (even though they're not pure track cars of course), since obviously people don't buy the 997TT (or GT-R) to just be cushy cruisers. An AMG or M5 would be better suited for that.
__________________
'07 997TT EVOMS EVT-700
'09 Nissan GT-R (Sold back under Lemon Law)
'06 BMW M5 (E60)
'06 Civic Hybrid
'08 Acura MDX
For the same reason, I dont need to drive the GT-R to know that Nissan has manipulated the media to get there car sold. Driving it wont tell otherwise now will it?
NO, but...
Driving the GT-R wont tell me that Evo didnt drift the GT3 in that magazine camparo now will it?
NO, but...
Driving the GT-R wont tell me that Car and Driver manipulated the trap speed now will it?
NO, but...
See a pattern here dufus? The only things I comment on are the ones I can make conclusions on without having driven the car. Because someone let you drive gingerly around a parking lot or the block or even if they had the courage to let you drive it at the track wont refute anything I've said, and nor will it if I sat in one.
Would you not agree that having time in a car you are discussing so vigorously would give you some insight that you cannot get from magazines and data alone?
You are a very big proponent of self assessment as stated before by yourself and others. Is it so ridiculous to say seat time, whether on road or track is important in deciding about a car? Why do we bother to test drive then? Why not just read a bunch of reports and buy a car if conclusions can be so easily drawn without driving? Did you test drive your 996 before you got it, or did you just hand them cash and walk out?
Case in point: You mentioned earlier that the transmission was clunky and the ride was harsh? Isn't that something you need to experience to draw a conclusion about?
I personally didn't find the transmission clunky at all when not in R mode in daily driving. An easy start off the line/moving out from parking is similar if not better than a 575M I drove, bit of slippage and a slight jolt before smooth hookup but by no means annoying. In auto shift mode, the transmission is quite intelligent even on the track, and in city driving it was by no means harsh nor jerky, again when not in R mode. The DCT is exquisitely quick both up and downshifts and power is just linear as can be. I hardly needed 2k to move about the city comfortably. The 575 by comparison definitely had short comings with the full auto mode and I preferred to leave it in paddle mode at all times.
I also drove the GTR on some rougher streets by where I live in all 3 modes, R, Normal and Comfort. R was decidedly harsh, Normal wasn't pleasant but not annoying by any means for people used to "sports cars"
While Comfort wasn't exactly buttery smooth by any measure, I doubt any car enthusiast would have complained. Frankly I enjoy a bit of a lively ride at the cost of comfort.
In that respect, both those things you commented on, were very subjective in experience, and I cannot imagine how you would draw a conclusion about them without having been in one...
As for tracking, would you not agree if you took one out and kept up with TTs, GT3s, and the like, that it would have some effect on your opinion on the cars capability?
Considering all you said about mag/ps3 racers before, why now does having driving experience mean so little?
__________________ 2006 G35 6MT
Last edited by stradaONE8; 11-02-2008 at 09:02 PM.
On top of that, the tiptronic in the 997 TT has launch control, and is almost as heavy and runs faster 1/4 mile and as fast 0-60. OVER and OVER and OVER again. And is allowable under warranty. What excuse does Nissan have there? Surely a faster lap time isnt making the tranny fail. So what justification are you seeking?
Hmm, let me see. IT'S A COMPLETELY NEW PLATFORM THAT JUST CAME OUT! For what it's worth, Nissan has never acknowledged launch control.....it was the media that figured out the sequence that would "engage" it and advertised the times, otherwise there would have been a LC mode! Since when can you compare an auto with decades of development to a DSG gearbox? I'm starting to believe that you just have selective reasoning. You have a rebuttal and a ridiculous excuse for EVERYTHING, well at least the negative stuff that you're arguing about, which is something none of us have really contested. Never seen anyone so relentless in my life. We get it, you don't like the car, but not once have you acknowledged anything positive about it so don't act like any argument you make about it is fair. This might be a Porsche forum, but I can guarantee you that most members are open-minded enough to think there are other capable cars out there including this one.
Last edited by jpvarghese; 11-02-2008 at 09:24 PM.
And for the misinformed. Find me where Nissan North America advertises 0-60 and quartermile times to begin with, more or less with this function called "launch control." True, the best times could be achieved in this "mode" according to the MEDIA, but Nissan does not advertise a LC mode. Only thing Nissan claims are the 'ring times and the 193-mph top speed. Browse the main site: http://www.gtrnissan.com Now tell me, how is Nissan responsible for abusive behavior to the transmission through a function they don't even advertise or even have? For those prospective buyers, if it is a drag car you're looking for this is not it! It was never meant to be one. It wasn't Nissan that misinformed customers it was the behavior of the media and dealers! Nissan's already covered their ass by explicitly stating what would cause a voided warranty claim, which to you geniuses out there, is done by turning VDC off. How can Nissan say launch control will void the warranty when there is no such stated function? Only fault I see in Nissan is their ignorance in the publications' continued use of this "mode" when testing.
Last edited by jpvarghese; 11-02-2008 at 09:43 PM.
And for the misinformed. Find me where Nissan North America advertises 0-60 and quartermile times to begin with, more or less with this function called "launch control." True, the best times could be achieved in this "mode" according to the MEDIA, but Nissan does not advertise a LC mode. Only thing Nissan claims are the 'ring times and the 193-mph top speed. Browse the main site: http://www.gtrnissan.com Now tell me, how is Nissan responsible for abusive behavior to the transmission through a function they don't even advertise or even have? For those prospective buyers, if it is a drag car you're looking for this is not it! It was never meant to be one. It wasn't Nissan that misinformed customers it was the behavior of the media and dealers! Nissan's already covered their ass by explicitly stating what would cause a voided warranty claim, which to you geniuses out there, is done by turning VDC off. How can Nissan say launch control will void the warranty when there is no such stated function? Only fault I see in Nissan is their ignorance in the publications' continued use of this "mode" when testing.
I guess you missed the Motortrend video on the Nissan website where the engineer describes in detail how to enable launch control
__________________
08 Cayenne TT
07 997 tt To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
I expected nothing less from you, a long set of hahahahaha and a to top it off just in case we didn't figure out that was laughter. Nothing of substance.
Your lack of anything to say back to me is just that much funnier and a testament to just how right I was.
But no, considering the pages and pages of discussion here, you resort to "Your post is too long" as an excuse to cover up that you read my post but had nothing worthwhile to retort with. What did you run out of clever? No more of that rock solid logic to share? Yea, no that'd be too much to ask.
But yes, you're right, that's the real issue, too much for you to read...one medium sized post in a 1000+ post thread. Right. Flawless logic once again.
A few paragraphs at a couple sentences each, would take even an average reader only about a minute to read. That's too much time I suppose when someone is embarrassing you in every right with every sentence. Too much for you too handle.
Anyways, still waiting on your super elite credentials that makes me so beneath you. I just want to know what to shoot for in my dreams.
God knows your Mizuno screen name and GTR sig is just oh so rampantly clever. How did you come up with all that? It's genius, just sheer genius. Especially the really big numbers, just wow, BRIL-LI-ANT!
Another couple giant pictures, another couple smileys...such original thought! Wow!
How do you manage to post these pictures? Just so much originality and substance...You never fail to impress me with your fervent wit and unabashed ability to sidestep being embarrassed by calling someone a fanboy while avoiding every idiotic thing you said.
Way to join a forum and have all 44 of your posts be in one single thread bashing a car you've never even driven...yes I'm the one needing a life with my 5 posts every week.
__________________ 2006 G35 6MT
Last edited by stradaONE8; 11-02-2008 at 11:26 PM.
Linear Mode
