997 Turbo / GT2 2006–2012 Turbo discussion on the 997 model Porsche 911 Twin Turbo.
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What’s next for Porsche?

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  #1  
Old 02-22-2009, 01:17 AM
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What’s next for Porsche?

The 911 has been developed from an ill handling, accident waiting to happen, to an amazing car that almost drives itself. Every progression has been leaps and bounds ahead of the previous generation. Enough with all the speculation about the next generation 911’s, there is not going to be that huge of a leap forward in performance. Porsche is even trying to get into the 4door market, and eventually the hybrid arena as well. They have noticed they cannot rest on their laurels, which is a good thing. They have always been masters of marketing, and have done a good job of sticking to their guns. I’m just thinking of how far they have gone with the 911 concept, they are pretty much to the point where the only thing left for it to do is fly. There just isn’t much more they can do, even with the 911 in racing, tires wont allow.

Will they ever have a turbo like two seater with awd and actual power? I mean you can check an option for the similar brakes that on a Boxster cost 14% of the cars overall coat. Why no check mark for similar power. Imagine if Porsche made their version of the R8. An Awd Cayman with the option for the engine of a turbo, or gt3. We wouldn’t have a thread about the gtr hundreds of pages long with people bickering over a couple seconds. If Porsche took a car they already build, the cayman/boxster, replicate an r8 drive train and stick in an engine they already produce it would be the car of the decade. A Carrera gt for the masses in a sense. The only reason they don’t want to is because they choose not to and that is what is blowing my mind. If they keep going in their eco friendly, family car ways they will be competing with Nissan in more then one way.
 
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Old 02-22-2009, 01:59 AM
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The 911 is Porsche's benchmark car . I've felt in recent times Porsche came late to the party with SUV's in 04 and now the large four door sedans get a new competitor with the Panamera .

I feel in this economy auto manufacturers are struggling for survival and with luxury retail sales dwindling it's only a matter of time before cost cutting effects the product . We can see the red flags with discounts and despreciation .

Right NOW -one has access to the finest fire breathing high Hp vehicles ever made . As cars face a weak economy, high gas price, and enviormental issues at some point manufacturers who always seem to be behind will evolve .

Look at all the high Hp sedans languishing on lots . Even look at the hybrids which are priced too high and offer too little .

I speculate that on the not so far horizon is a trend of medocrity ahead and that is one more reason why NOW has never been a greater time to buy a great car !!!
 

Last edited by yrralis1; 02-22-2009 at 02:03 AM.
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Old 02-22-2009, 02:13 AM
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911 has a great deal yet to be improved as long as cars like GTR corners better and cost less. My 911 slides around in rain so much that it is embarrassing...

Porsche's strategy is simple and reliable supercar performance. Japanese cars can try but will rarely if ever attain the same status. Brand and Product is what Porsche is all about... Porsche is just milking the brand w cayenne and panamera.
 
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Old 02-22-2009, 02:33 AM
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Lightweight, AWD, turbocharged!
 
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Old 02-22-2009, 06:08 AM
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i think if they build a super cayman then it would canabalize 911 sales, their flagship platform.
 
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Old 02-22-2009, 09:03 AM
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As if you didn't know already, I'll tell you. What's next for Porsche is more 911's. You want to talk about next generation Porsche but leave out all the speculation of the next generation? What kind of contradictory approach is that? How can you say there won't be a big difference in performance with a new motor that could lose 100 lbs? PDK? DFI? Comon man, what are you basing your statements on? The 911 in racing has proven that it can run with mid engine cars over and over again, and it will do so on the street too.

Porsche has always been the manufacturer to do more with less. So it you want to see a 600-650 hp 911, I doubt it, especially before CAFE takes over. Everyone said the same ole garbage last year about the 911 being maxed out in racing, but Porsche took over and won anyways and added a DFI 4.0 liter towards the end of the season which is still on the early end of developement.

DFI, PDK, 4.0 liters have all yet to make it into the 911, and will make considerable performance increases.

The cayman isn't sufficient to supplant the 911 as the flagship. No backseat, nothing. If the cayman takes a step up it will be more along the lines of a CGT and will cost once again much more than a 911, so the 911 will still be the foundation of the marquee.
 

Last edited by heavychevy; 02-22-2009 at 09:05 AM.
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Old 02-22-2009, 09:03 AM
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These are trying times for automobile companies, all are feeling the pinch and not just from reduced sales, think emission regulations, pedestrian safety etc. All are going to change the shape of the cars we love and not necessarily for the better (at least in the short term).

A super Cayman might be a great idea, just price it on par with the Turbo - or higher - and it wont hurt 911 sales enough to feel it in their pocket. Hell, the GT3 motor in a stripped down Cayman would be fun!

As already mentioned, now is a great time to buy a car.
 
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Old 02-22-2009, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by 19000rpm
the next generation 911’s, there is not going to be that huge of a leap forward in performance... with the 911 concept, they are pretty much to the point where the only thing left for it to do is fly.
I think it was in the 1930s when the head of the US patent said, "everything that will ever be invented, has already been done".
 
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Old 02-22-2009, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by ast78
i think if they build a super cayman then it would canabalize 911 sales, their flagship platform.
They already made s super Cayman. It was called a CGt.
 
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Old 02-22-2009, 09:37 AM
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Speaking with a friend yesterday, and we were just speaking hypothetically but consider if the current 911 engine/transmission were rotated 180 degrees. This would change it to a mid-engine vehicle with all of the added benefits with only a minor loss (no longer having the vestigial rear seats). The GT3s and GT2 have already abandoned these and the dead space could easily accommodate such a switch. Porsche has always risen to whatever the occasion and I have no doubts that whatever they decide to do they will eventually dominate the competition.
 
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Old 02-22-2009, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Sloopy
They already made s super Cayman. It was called a CGt.

Oddly enough the GT2 is pretty much just as fast. With almost 200 more lbs and 100 less hp.
 

Last edited by heavychevy; 02-22-2009 at 10:06 AM.
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Old 02-22-2009, 10:49 AM
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What was meant with the little room for improvement statement was just from a performance standpoint. They can always do more to make it more efficient, lower cost etc. But the fact that the engine is in the wrong spot, you can only make the tires so big, the areo/computer controls so smart in compensation. If you were to take a 930, a 996, and a 997tt and run them around a track you would see what I mean in the fact progress is slowing. They can always do something to make it a better car. Trust me they count, and bank on that because that’s what sells cars. They always keep a little in reserve. I just think that performance is close to maxed, and with fuel being as great of a concern, I wounded be surprised if the peak of 911 performance was timed with peek of petroleum. It doesn’t matter if you can build a turbo that has hundreds of hp, can do the ring in 7 flat and is cost effective if there isn’t anything to put in the tank. Start growing sugarcane! I didn’t even intend to bring up fuel but that was a very enlightening point yrralis. We have seen the demise of the muscle car era, maybe the end of the true performance car era is next?
 
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Old 02-22-2009, 11:07 AM
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Engine in the wrong spot? That is laughable considering that same engine in the wrong spot technology won ALMS last year, and is the favorite going into this year.

Not to mention the only cars legitimately faster than a GT2 are a 638 hp ZR-1 and a 600 hp ACR, anything else is in MC12, Enzo, Zonda territory with anywhere from 100-400 more hp or tons of aero.

What are you basing this there isn't more performance to be gained on? You aren't providing any decent information to suggest that you are basing what you're saying on actual facts. Because there ARE NONE to support your stance. Whether it's racing, or street driving, Porsche is still running with the top dogs, with less effort (meaning less power, less aero stuff on the car etc.)

When you take a sum of all the factors that get a car around a track fast, Porsche hasn't even used it's true potential.

Could you imagine what a GT2 with 600 hp and a RS aero setup would do to any and everything???

Porsche could easily make a GT2 that would spank the ACR if they wanted to, so IMO that does not mean the 911 has reached anywhere near the end of it's potential.

Please provide some evidence to support your theory, because I can't think of any that does.
 

Last edited by heavychevy; 02-22-2009 at 01:06 PM.
  #14  
Old 02-22-2009, 11:42 AM
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Porsche could and can do whatever the market wants and allows. If you get into Porsche history Vic Elford had a 917 up to 245mph at Lemans in 1969. In 1973 the Penske/Donahue 917/30 at 1200 HP dominated the then Can Am series and a year later set a Talledega record at over 221 mph a lap. 23 years ago a street legal (European) 959 would do 225+mph. Our na production models have the power and handling to do more than any of us amatuers can handle on the public roads; the only plus a turbo gives you is a little quicker from a red light and the "mine's bigger than yours" ego trip.

19000RPM's question is a good one, but I think he answered it too: "thinking of how far they have gone with the 911 concept, they are pretty much to the point where the only thing left for it to do is fly. There just isn’t much more they can do......"
Porsche could easily build a 500 HP Cayman, but why?
 
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Old 02-22-2009, 01:04 PM
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My impression is the Caymen will go no farther than it already has to date. The 911 will eventually see a 4L flat 8. No point in a lightweight pseudo 997tt, they already have the gt2 for that niche. The 911 will always be rear engined, that will never change, rear engined cars were Ferdinand Porsche's 'thing' dating back to the early 1930s (the first VW).
 


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