A day in paradise: Watching my Cargraphic Turbo tuned by GIAC

[cannga]

Important thread to be read before this thread: The benefits of the GIAC Flashloader system and ... Thanks to the crew of GIAC, I had a day in paradise for a car enthusiast yesterday: Watching the pro’s tune the ECU of my Turbo. In case you don’t already know, the only addition to my car so far is the Cargraphic Loud exhaust. I’ve been shopping, and thinking about ECU tune for a year now. My hesitancy is partly related to warranty issue, and partly related to the fact that I use the car as a daily driver on Los Angeles freeways, don’t track the car, and occasionally take the wife on Porsche club drives. I therefore am a difficult and “enigmatic” customer: I would like more power, but not too much power LOL; and it’s very important to me that my car retains its daily-drive ability. Above all & at least for now, I don't want to have to replace the clutch, or any other hardware as a matter of fact (more on this later). In other words, if you are into killer horsepower and 60-130 times, check this "landmark" GIAC/AWE thread by eclou instead -- this car went to 186 mph at Texas mile: AWE 700 kit review . My impression of GIAC, having spent a day “infiltrating” the office and facility: A serious, very tightly run, very well organized operation. That said, the guys were at heart car guys like all of us here. I’ve read about what Garrett has done in the past, and it’s a pleasure to finally meet the G of GIAC (Garrett Integrated Automotive Corporation). I found out Garrett is a Porsche nut like us, owner of a rather well tuned 996 Turbo, and even better yet, is a graduate of Cal Berkeley. This has got to be a big plus as it seems some smart people go to school there (ha ha, nudge nudge wink wink, go Bears!). The crew was enthusiastic, helpful, and spent time explaining & answering my amateurish questions (Thank you!). I still forgot to ask what that curve Motec AF is, and which way is good. LOL. Garrett, Andrew, Austin, and my mysterious test driver whose name I don’t remember (sorry) worked on my car. There were a few dyno runs with the stock chip, then the program is loaded onto a spare ECU (My stock ECU remains original and "untouched." The spare ECU is avail. for $650 from Sunset Porsche, plus 200 or so from the dealer to load the original Porsche DME program, then the flash goes on top of this.), and then the crew went to work fine tuning the curves, with tuning dynos in between. For those with Cargraphic exhausts, this means GIAC now has a file that’s specific to the exhaust and I believe you should make a point to ask for this file specifically. A couple of notes before I forget. I am loath to replace any hardware in my Turbo baby (since I think it’s the cause of many problems reported with modding, usually secondary to some kind of disconnect or installation problem), but I could have sworn Garrett and Andrew mentioned replacing the stock intercooler with something like the AWE intercooler about 20 times yesterday when I was at the shop. Or was it 25? At any rate, this should give you an idea of how important it is in their eyes to lower Intake Air Temp. The second thing I heard, this one only about 12 times, is how horrible 91 PON California gasoline is. And how I should try race gas at my earliest opportunity. Garrett, ever the car enthusiast, wanted me to try the higher octane stuff on the way home. LOL. A lot of people have reported on ECU tunes so I have very little to add here, especially since mine is only a modest stage 2. But a few points for those on the fence, my preliminary subjective evaluation (specific to my car and personal preference and not meant to be "authoritative" in any way, shape, or form; we all have different goals for our cars): (Edited on 6/29, after about 2 weeks with the tune. The Normal mode feels much much quicker than I had judged initially.): 1. Before the tune I was skeptical and worried whether I would feel a difference. You could rest assured the power increase is VERY SIGNIFICANT and very easily noticeable. You’ve tried to run in the swimming pool, with water up to your waste? There is this heaviness to forward progression. That’s what the stock car feels like compared to a tuned car. My GIAC Turbo feels like it has a spring in the engine; springy and very light footed is how I would describe it. When you press on the gas pedal on the freeway, cars besides yours simply disappear like Star Trek's warp speed effect. I am NOT kidding. The problem I have now is I keep speeding even when I know there are plenty of cops around. It’s very hard to resist. It’s fun. It's interesting to note that when you switch the car from Stock to Tune mode using the wonderful Flashloader, it doesn't feel faster until after a while (I don't know how long this adaptation takes; I've not tested it enough.). I've been told this is because the DME does take time to adapt. 2. Lag (what happens when you press gas pedal at 4000 rpm, slight lag in response in stock car): Virtually eliminated, in both Normal and Sport Mode. This more linear engine response might be a subtle point but to me is a major reason why we should all upgrade our ECU. 3. Spool up (what happens when you really smash on gas pedal at 2000 rpm, power doesn’t kick in until 2800-3000 in stock car): Perhaps a bit faster, but essentially no change. You don't normally feel this effect since most of the times your shift will occur at above 3000. So basically in normal driving the car feels like it has a Naturally Aspirated engine. 4. The GIAC car feels very fast already in Normal Mode. Thankfully it retains some of the desirable "gentleness" of stock that I could use it comfortably in my daily commute in congested LA freeways. Most importantly, there is only mild noise increase and there is no resonance. The pedal response, to my relief, is stock like and allows for relaxed cruising when I want to. Performance wise, GIAC Normal mode feels halfway between Stock Sport and GIAC Sport. 5. In GIAC Sport mode, all hell breaks loose, and one has to be VERY careful around curves in this mode. That said, the power delivery is still linear. There is so much power here that the wimpy me actually drives in Normal Mode most of the times. Believe me on this one, the Sport Mode is insanity incarnate. The Sport Mode is slightly noisier as well, but still acceptable and there is no resonance at higher rpm. 6. Fuel Consumption: For obvious reason, not an important point. But FWIW, I haven't done a formal comparison yet but a preliminary glance at the MPG indicates I am leaving a rather large carbon foot print. Since all the ECU tunes on the market seem to deliver lots of power, besides power other factors that one should consider are: How the power is delivered (peaky versus linear), the throttle response (an overly sensitive throttle response bothers me, think of driving the car at 5000 rpm all the time), whether there is significant more noise and resonance, and how the exhaust note is changed. From my limited experience, I think it's possible that all ECU tunes, because of manipulation of ignition timing and AFR, make the car louder and affect the exhaust note. And the degree that each tune does this could vary significantly. Thankfully, the GIAC tune has very little effect on noise, resonance, and the sound of the exhaust note. So slight is the change that without the Flashloader for me to go back and forth to compare, I would have some difficulty noticing the change. And I am a Golden Eared Audiophile LOL. I breathed a sigh of relief when I first sat in the GIAC car; very much stock like with respect to noise. On a scale of 1 (stock) to 10 (bad), I would give a rating between 2 and 3, in other words, outstanding. With respect to the exhaust note, there is slight reduction of the low frequency guttural roar, and a slight shift to higher frequency. The rumbling is still there, but now I only trigger about 3 car alarms in the parking garage of my work place when I arrive in the morning. It used to be 5, 6. 6. So what? Screw the warranty. Run, don’t walk, to your nearest GIAC dealer! Because the Flashloader has the ability to return your car completely to stock behavior if you don't like the tune mode (it works as adverised), you have absolutely nothing to lose (kind of ), and everything to gain with this mod. I have some pictures to load later when I have time (very busy!), and video of one of the dyno runs if my kids teach me how to put it on youtube. And maybe when I come back from vacation, my report on higher octane gas.

[raclaims]

Awesome right up! I should have my GIAC flash done by next weekend...so now I'm even more psyched! Let me know how the intercooler is once you breakdown and get it!

[imcarnuts]

It's about time Can. LOL Congratulations and welcome to the club. I am much more of an impulse person and did mine without a lot of research. There has not been a second that I have doubted my decision to flash my car or the selection of GIAC. Can't wait to read your follow-up posts after living with this for awhile. Sounds like the guys at GIAC really recommend the new intercoolers. I will have to consider them. Fortunately we have 93 octane in Pittsburgh (not to mention the Steelers & the Penguins.)

[eclou]

finally my son......

[bbywu]

Originally Posted by eclou

finally my son......

Actually, shouldn't it be:

[TT Surgeon]

What kind of HP graphs?
Congrats

[shawminator]

Great to hear, Can! Congrats on taking the 'plunge'. Given that I too have a Cargraphic Loud exhaust, I have been waiting with baited breath to learn of your reaction to the GIAC tune. I am especially reassured given your comments on GIAC having a file that's specific to Cargraphic. You mentioned that the exhaust noise only changes slightly in Sport mode. What about at initial start-up, any notable change in exhaust tone post-GIAC flash? Also, has the RPM level of your car at idle changed at all?

Congrats again and happy driving!

[cannga]

Bob,
I seriously almost fell off my chair laughing when your post came up.

eclou,
"Lord (Vader), forgive me as I know have strayed from the righteous path."

Duffy and anyone interested in more power and dyno curve,
Yes an upgraded intercooler like the AWE intercooler was mentioned several times as the thing for me to do to increase power. I am NOT going to bring up any absolute number here as we all know the Mustang could be manipulated to read any number one wants it to read, and the key is to look at the delta or percentage change, so... I vaguely recall Andrew showing me a dyno with an increase of about 10% in torque (about 50 lb-ft per GIAC settings) with an intercooler change. You do need to reflash the ECU -- free of charge I think.

As I have mentioned, it's possible I will eventually add it but at this time it's a definite maybe. I don't like to add hardware. I did this ECU out of peer pressure anyhow, not because I need more power really. BTW, adding the intercooler may or may not lead to adding the clutch. Someone on this forum has this package I think; I wonder if he needs a clutch yet?

In the same vein, for those who must know, the curve will come, but only as a climax to this thread. (I will leak some info that it's a nice torque curve with reasonable area under curve; but it's a stage 2, so don't expect eclou's numbers here.) But if you must have some numbers, the gain in horsepower of ECU + Cargraphic over Cargraphic by itself is about 8%. The gain in torque is 17%.
FWIW and curiously enough, the only equivalent data published for ECU tune in a car with Cargraphic exhaust is by Cargraphic itself, and the percentage gain there is 7% horsepower and 22% torque, if my calculation is right. It's interesting that the absolute numbers are totally different but the percentage gains are similar. A reminder again that one should only look at percentage gain or better yet, 60-130 times when comparing tunes. Note also that my car is on ****ty California 91 PON gasoline. The aforementioned tune is done by RS Tuning, sort of a powerhouse in Europe but not present here (designer of the Cargraphic exhaust).
Bottom line is you need 60-130 time, and that for sure is not going to come any time soon from me. I just took traffic school last year for speeding while listening to the Cargraphic exhaust, first day that I had it.

shaw,
I was also thinking of you when I mentioned that. Yes, I believe that Garrett specifically said that the file will be of special advantage to people with Cargraphic exhaust. (GIAC please correct me if I am wrong.)

There is no change in idle speed. Very little to no change in exhaust note or noise at Normal mode. The Sport mode is a little noisier at idle, but entirely acceptable, and once you drive, the noise is same as before. Basically, in my car sound and noise are not a problem.
Warning: I am an audiophile with golden ears (Grin. I used to sit for hours comparing how different speaker cables sound. And those cables cost as much as the ECU tune. No kidding. LOL) and untreated OCD , so when I say "little," it's possible others wouldn't be able to tell a difference.
The only difference, the deep, menacing gutteral roar when you tap the gas pedal at idle to 1500 rpm is still there, but it doesn't shake the car as much. Again, most normal people wouldn't notice this.

Chris,
Thanks!

[cannga]

Setting up and adding measuring instruments (that's my car's test "driver" btw):

[CTT-QTR]

Congrats and enjoy your new beast

btw , your car looks clean ! is that guard red ?

[nyamg]

Can, your write-ups are impeccable. These companies should be paying you for this great publicity. Anyway, congrats on the tune and enjoy it, can't wait till I join the club.

[shawminator]

Thanks, Can. Your detailed, candid reviews have yet once again provided me with a great deal of confidence (not to mention excitement) around potential mods for my car. I've owned a number of normally aspirated Porsches and Aston Martins over the past few years, but I've never been bitten by the modding/upgrading bug like I have with my recently acquired 997 Turbo Cab. First I added exhaust, then wheels, now onto ECU flash, will it ever end? I sure as heck hope not...:-)

[cannga]

OT

Duffy,
I was at Pitt in 1990 passing gas (training) for Thomas Starzl's group (plus cardiac transplant), had a great time and love the city!
BTW, I was mildly shocked to find out what the second profession of GIAC's principle engineer is (still board certified!). I guess some people are just born smarter than others.

997-QTR
Yes. Guards red with sand beige interior. Thanks.

Shaw,
LOL. The path to happiness for Turbo owners must pass through this prerequisite Triad of Suspension, Exhaust, ECU. Costly and time consuming, but incredibly educational and fun and I would not trade it for anything else in the (car) world.

[Fabryce@GMGRacing]

GIAC-- 4 letters to HP heaven!

[bbywu]

Originally Posted by cannga

FWIW and curiously enough, the only equivalent data published for ECU tune in a car with Cargraphic exhaust is by Cargraphic itself, and the percentage gain there is 7% horsepower and 22% torque, if my calculation is right. It's interesting that the absolute numbers are totally different but the percentage gains are similar. A reminder again that one should only look at percentage gain or better yet, 60-130 times when comparing tunes. Note also that my car is on ****ty California 91 PON gasoline. The aforementioned tune is done by RS Tuning, sort of a powerhouse in Europe but not present here (designer of the Cargraphic exhaust).
Bottom line is you need 60-130 time, and that for sure is not going to come any time soon from me. I just took traffic school last year for speeding while listening to the Cargraphic exhaust, first day that I had it.

You could also go to your local drag strip....your trap time should be pretty reflective of the HP you're making, even if your 60' is slow.