Intercooler upgrade - Page 2

cannga · 08-05-2009, 11:36 AM #16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike/A.W.E.

Regardless if it is stock or a properly written aftermarket tune, the timing will retard if the IAT's get too high. Boost can be pulled, but that would be rare. Boost will not go up due to lower IAT's either.

So the coolest most dense air is the ideal scenario. That will keep the ECU in check and make sure you have the maximum amount of power on tap.

Hope that helps...

Thank you. More questions please:

1. Are there protective benefits to other components of the turbo system when you lower Intake Air Temp? That is, does lower IAT affect THAT MUCH the operating temp of the turbo's components, like that VGT?
Or is the benefit of a better intercooler mainly an increase in power from cool, dense air?

2. Related to 1 & am just curious: Does a better intercooler also result in lower Exhaust Gast Temp? That is, any correlation between IAT and EGT?

3. So for anyone looking for intercooler upgrade, the 2 main parameters to look for are: drop in IAT without too much drop in pressure? What is an "acceptable" drop in pressure?

TIA.

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911TurboS2 · 08-05-2009, 12:06 PM #17

Cannga- Sorry, I am asking Mike of AWE a question.

Mike- I just received a Ruf RTurbo with Porsche Motorsports GT2 intercoolers replacing the orginal ones from Ruf. This is a 996 variant, Ruf VIN, do you know anything about these intercoolers? The car has the "Nardo" 590bhp engine

Thanks in advance - Gerry

Mike/A.W.E. · 08-05-2009, 01:35 PM #18

Quote:

Originally Posted by 911TurboS2

Cannga- Sorry, I am asking Mike of AWE a question.

Mike- I just received a Ruf RTurbo with Porsche Motorsports GT2 intercoolers replacing the orginal ones from Ruf. This is a 996 variant, Ruf VIN, do you know anything about these intercoolers? The car has the "Nardo" 590bhp engine

Thanks in advance - Gerry

I don't, and I doubt they are anything special. Probably just the off the shelf intercoolers used on a 996 GT2 or X50 equipped 996TT. We used to use those, too...

Mike/A.W.E. · 08-06-2009, 07:56 AM #19

Quote:

Originally Posted by cannga

1. Are there protective benefits to other components of the turbo system when you lower Intake Air Temp? That is, does lower IAT affect THAT MUCH the operating temp of the turbo's components, like that VGT?
Or is the benefit of a better intercooler mainly an increase in power from cool, dense air?

Quote:

Originally Posted by cannga

2. Related to 1 & am just curious: Does a better intercooler also result in lower Exhaust Gast Temp? That is, any correlation between IAT and EGT?

There is a definite relationship between IATs and EGTs, though it is not linear. For example, on a 997TT with our 750R kit, with an increase in IATs of 15 deg F, timing dropped 2.25 degrees and EGTs went up 23 degrees.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cannga

What is an "acceptable" drop in pressure?

A properly designed intercooler will have little loss in pressure when exiting the intercooler.

Go too big and the air has to fill this massive cavity. That will then slow things up when it comes out the other end. This then will equal less power.

So there is no real "acceptable" drop. The goal is to just make sure it is as little as possible without actually causing a restriction.

It's a fine line, but with experience and proper testing we feel these are the perfect balance.

Mike/A.W.E. · 08-06-2009, 08:42 AM #20

Let me clarify what I wrote. I am not an engineer, so I apologize. I was corrected.

The volume of intercooler does not equal pressure restriction. It's actually a combo of charge row sizing, number of fins inside the rows, and end tank design. For example, our FMIC we offer for the B7 and B8 Audi A4 2.0T is huge, but has a very low pressure drop.

cannga · 08-08-2009, 01:05 PM #21

Mike,

Thank you for taking the time from your busy schedule to explain. I really appreciate it.

I believe one time I asked you (or maybe another pro) and was told that YES, when you upgrade the intercooler you should upgrade the ECU software to take full advantage.

But looking at the data presented so far, it seems to me the advantages of the better A.W.E. intercooler are there even if you don't plan to upgrade the ECU software, correct?

I think the answer will be relevant to someone like me, who has MORE than enough power

with my GIAC stage 2 , or perhaps someone with another brand of ECU mod, that does not have specific intercooler software upgrade?

Congrats, as always, on the great work. It's really a good thing that I don't live close to your shop -- I could see myself hanging out at the A.W.E. shop all the time.

Easily.

cayenne_ksa · 08-08-2009, 05:49 PM #22

really good info guys and Yeah Mike you are the man. even though you are not an engineer I have learned a lot from you being a Mechanical Engineer graduating soon

thank you all

Kafka997 · 08-08-2009, 10:21 PM #23

And don't forget the helpful and friendly pre-sale and post-sale service and support! AWE products are cutting edge - but they are also very people oriented.

K.

Mike/A.W.E. · 08-14-2009, 09:54 AM #24

Quote:

Originally Posted by cannga

Mike,

Thank you for taking the time from your busy schedule to explain. I really appreciate it.

I believe one time I asked you (or maybe another pro) and was told that YES, when you upgrade the intercooler you should upgrade the ECU software to take full advantage.

But looking at the data presented so far, it seems to me the advantages of the better A.W.E. intercooler are there even if you don't plan to upgrade the ECU software, correct?

I think the answer will be relevant to someone like me, who has MORE than enough power

with my GIAC stage 2 , or perhaps someone with another brand of ECU mod, that does not have specific intercooler software upgrade?

Congrats, as always, on the great work. It's really a good thing that I don't live close to your shop -- I could see myself hanging out at the A.W.E. shop all the time.

Easily.

That is correct. The stock IC's are cheap for Porsche to make in mass quantities. They are decent, but not as good as something that can be found in the aftermarket. Just like many other parts on these cars. Remember, Porsche is a business and the bottom line will always rule.

If you do have aftermarket software, regardless of brand, ask your tuner if they have IC specific software. This can't hurt.

A turbo car will always love cool temps and higher octane gas. Heat is your enemy. If she is inhaling the coolest possible air, she will perform at peak levels even when giver her a proper beating...

Can, if you are ever on the East Coast, I urge you to stop by. I enjoy giving tours and there are 25 guys here that would also like to meet an out of town guest....

cannga · 08-14-2009, 11:34 AM #25

Great thread, great info. Thanks again Mike.

raclaims · 08-14-2009, 09:01 PM #26

I have to admit...on my way to work this morning while it was cool my car was a monster...on the way home it was hot as heck and it wasn't the same...

I can't believe I'm even thinking about intercoolers...I need to log off...

StuartsPNB · 08-18-2009, 05:37 PM #27

Very nice layout and data!

Easy to follow, good looking product.

GotBoost? · 08-18-2009, 09:56 PM #28

Quote:

Originally Posted by raclaims

I have to admit...on my way to work this morning while it was cool my car was a monster...on the way home it was hot as heck and it wasn't the same...

I can't believe I'm even thinking about intercoolers...I need to log off...

Put in some race gas and your problems go away!!!

On a serious note, on hot days my car does pull back timing. I think an intercooler would be the next item on my list.