Intercooler upgrade

[Mike/A.W.E.]

Originally Posted by cannga Great thread, great info. Thanks again Mike. My pleasure! We hope you choose us as your supplier.

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[Mike/A.W.E.]

Originally Posted by StuartsPNB

Very nice layout and data!

Easy to follow, good looking product.

Thank you.

One of our core philosophies is full disclosure. By showing how we test and what are findings are, it now raises the bar. Meaning our competitors will now have to do the same in order to compete. This is a good way to expose those that are just parts resellers rather then actual tuning houses.

We have a staff of 25 with the majority working in Engineering and Manufacturing. These guys work tirelessly to design and make parts that actually work as claimed! Unfortunately this industry is littered with the opposite.

[ari]

Do these us the stock end tank diameter? Are they available with 2.5" end tanks? I'm wondering because many people upgrade to 2.5" intakes, Y pipes, all the way to MM TB and IPD Plenum.

[landjet]

Mike, dumb question here. How do IC's do the job of cooling the air? I was under the impression that IC's were like an A/C condensor that cool the air using refrigerant, but after examining the drawings I don't see any plumbing. Would an actually refrigerant unit work more efficiently at cooling the air? Or would it be a shock to the engine if the temps were too low?

[Mike/A.W.E.]

Originally Posted by landjet

Mike, dumb question here. How do IC's do the job of cooling the air? I was under the impression that IC's were like an A/C condensor that cool the air using refrigerant, but after examining the drawings I don't see any plumbing. Would an actually refrigerant unit work more efficiently at cooling the air? Or would it be a shock to the engine if the temps were too low?

There are two types of charge coolers. What you are thinking of, and what is sometimes found in automotive applications, is a water to air intercooler.

The pre-throttle body air is forced through the intercooler core. That intercooler core is for all intense and purposes surrounded by a sealed box. That box has a coolant/water mix that passes around the core to cool it which in turns cools the air inside it.

What your Porsche has, and most other turbo cars have, is an air to air intercooler. Meaning the pre-throttle body air runs through the intercooler while high velocity ambient air passes by it cooling it down.

Either way, the job of the intercooler it cool the incoming air creating a denser charge. That will equate to more power longer.

Now, are intercoolers created equal? NO.

Things to watch out for:

1. Too big. Remember that turbo has to fill that cavity. Doing so you will lose velocity. If the IC core it too big for the application, you will get a massive pressure drop and loss of hp.

2. End tank design. This can also play a role in flow and overall effectiveness.

3. Core design. Any quality intercooler worth it's salt will be a bar/plate design. You also have to take into consideration the number of charge row. Too many or too few for the application can effect performance.

4. Does it leak? It would shock you how many intercoolers we have installed for clients that bring in their own parts. Many top name brands are shipped with obvious leaks.

Before we would install the clients cores we would take a few minutes to dunk the intercoolers in our water test rig. We pressure the cooler and submerge it looking for holes.

If it leaks, it's bad.

In some cases they can be fixed, but other times the holes are buried down so far in the core that a welder cannot reach them.

Demand intercoolers that don't leak!

Finally, when searching for an intercooler, always ask for the following.

1. Graphed differences of the pressure drop between the stock and aftermarket cooler.

2. Graphed differences of the intake air temps between the stock and aftermarket cooler.

See here:
http://awe-tuning.com/pages/info/con...cfm?content=63

We hope this helps. Our company spends considerable time making sure that if it has our name on it, the product meets or exceeds expectations.

For those ever traveling in the Philly area, please come by for a tour.

[HRTC]

Mike, nice write up. Thanks for the info.

[gt2urbo]

my awe 700 kit ran flawlessly ty awe i will miss it

[landjet]

Mike, thanks for taking the time to answer, very helpful. I'm not all that far from you. When the time comes, I'll have to drive up and see you.

[Mike/A.W.E.]

Originally Posted by landjet

Mike, thanks for taking the time to answer, very helpful. I'm not all that far from you. When the time comes, I'll have to drive up and see you.

My pleasure.

Look forward to meeting you.

[Nij]

Mike on the AWE site the following information is written for 997TT:

"During development of our high horsepower turbos kits for the 997TT, we experienced excessively high intake air temperatures. Upon close examination of the stock intercoolers, we found they matched the same specs as the 996TT X50/GT2 design, which is suitable to 600hp, but not much beyond that."

I am about to do the GIAC chip tuning (tubi exhaust mod in place already). If the hp gain is less than 600hp from the exhaust and GIAC chip mods does it make it necessary to do the intercoolers upgrade?
Also what does the add on intercooler software upgrade bring to the equation in hp gains?

Thanks Mike

Nij

[Mike/A.W.E.]

Originally Posted by Nij

Mike on the AWE site the following information is written for 997TT:

"During development of our high horsepower turbos kits for the 997TT, we experienced excessively high intake air temperatures. Upon close examination of the stock intercoolers, we found they matched the same specs as the 996TT X50/GT2 design, which is suitable to 600hp, but not much beyond that."

I am about to do the GIAC chip tuning (tubi exhaust mod in place already). If the hp gain is less than 600hp from the exhaust and GIAC chip mods does it make it necessary to do the intercoolers upgrade?
Also what does the add on intercooler software upgrade bring to the equation in hp gains?

Thanks Mike

Nij

Nij,

You have nothing to lose by installing larger intercoolers on these cars. They are going to benefit you regardless of your power level, especially with track use.

The stock intercoolers heat soak quickly. The idea behind this product is for greater thermal efficiency. We want you to maintain as cool an intake charge as possible for as long as possible.

Are they absolutely necessary for the mods you have planned right now? NO, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Will they help provide better cooling of your intake charge for more power with the mods you have planned? YES.

Expect gains to be around 10hp with just software and exhaust. However, as I said earlier, it's not just a hp gain that you are getting when investing in Intercoolers.

Hope this helps with your decision.

Fire away if you have further questions...

[PAULIEWALNUTS]

Mike I am still in the market for some new IC's and you have answered a lot of questions.There is one question that I'm having a hard time answering. What is the max core size that would be beneficial using 24/18 turbos? I know this more of a how are they designed question,but can a 5" cooler be designed to work without the detrimental pressure drop? Is there any way the 3.5" is going to be better than the 5" for a car at approx 650rwhp? Again thank you for the info you have presented here.

[Mike/A.W.E.]

Originally Posted by PAULIEWALNUTS

Mike I am still in the market for some new IC's and you have answered a lot of questions.There is one question that I'm having a hard time answering. What is the max core size that would be beneficial using 24/18 turbos? I know this more of a how are they designed question,but can a 5" cooler be designed to work without the detrimental pressure drop? Is there any way the 3.5" is going to be better than the 5" for a car at approx 650rwhp? Again thank you for the info you have presented here.

PW,

Here are some key point to remember as they are often overlooked.

First, focusing just on core depth ignores too many other important factors.

Core depth does not directly equal pressure drop. Fin count, number of charge rows, charge row sizing, as well as core length and width are just as important to consider spool/lag.

If all those other specs are kept the same between the 3.5” and 5.0” cores, then IAT reduction can be focused on in order to determine the relative worth of the extra spool lag from the larger core. Spool lag happens because there is greater volume to fill with the 5” vs the 3.5” before the boost hits the engine.

However, typically, adding core depth has diminishing returns in regarding to cooling IATs. The outside air moving through the core to wick away heat gets hotter as it moves through the core. So the depth at the “back” of the core is seeing hotter air vs the the depths above it, meaning that it has less ability to absorb heat.

Hope this helps.