Looking into ECU upgrades, need clutch advice.

[AutoBond007]

Hello all, I'm currently in the process of researching ECU upgrades for my baby and I need a bit of advice from the transmission gurus of this forum. Some of the advertised software gains from several tuners are quite impressive. Many look like they would shred though my OEM clutch despite having low miles. What have people found? Is an upgraded clutch immediately required or recommended? I plan to run both our local 93 octane fuel and possibly Sunoco 100 octane, especially on track days. When I'm behind the wheel I'd say I have a heavy foot and I love the feeling I get ripping into it when no one else is around. I do plan to take the car to the track possibly once or twice next year for driving lessons but I'm not interested in drag racing. Basically, what does everyone recommend for a driver like me? Modification Plans 1. ECU Upgrade/software 2. 93 Octane daily and 100 Octane on special occasions. 3. Possibly a full exhaust depending on noise levels (still need to research). Driving Habits/Plans 1. Mild daily driving. I drive the car after work more than once a week and on the weekends so it doesn't just sit in my garage. 2. Heavy foot off the line. 3. Heavy foot all the time to be honest. 5. Interested in driving lessons on the track. 6. No plans to drag race. (Only real racing for me!) Clutch Feeling 1. I don't want an on/off switch if possible. 2. Would not mind keeping the OEM clutch if it can get me though one or two driving lessons on the track. Thank you!

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[sharkster]

We've found the stock clutch to be just fine on all the stage 1-3 kits we do and especially with the low miles that you have. If you do end up wanting a clutch upgrade stick to a sachs/gt2 based set up which will feel very close to stock.

[TT Gasman]

You can get by with the stock clutch but I would strongly suggest the Sachs stage 2 clutch.

[Evolution MotorSports]

We have had many clients use the factory clutch set up with our ECU tune and not have any problems. As long as you are not doing any John Force launches you should be fine.
What are your expectations in regards to the ECU tune?

[sparkhill]

Most of us agree there is a triad of 997.1TT mods: 1) ECU tune, 2) exhaust, 3) suspension.

1) ECU Tune: do your research and choose wisely.
2) Exhaust: all of the quality aftermarket exhausts perform similarly until you reach the 700HP kits - choose the one that sounds the best to you.
3) Suspension: most of us have the Bilstein B16 Damptronic kits. TT Gasman states that better springs and a proper alignment gets you 90% at a fraction of the price and I believe him.

The stock clutch will be fine for your stated goals (unless you really dislike the over-assisted stock clutch feel). Based on your post, I think I would consider starting with the suspension.

[GotBoost?]

It's modding time!!!!


ECU: I went with EVOMSit. I highly recommend it to anyone. The ability to swtich automatically between different fuel grades is great. The power increase is awesome and the customer service is second to none.

Exhaust: First off, you have to do the exhaust if you are doing the ECU. No point of doing just an ECU if you are not going to help exhaust flow. As for which is exhaust to go with, it's all a preference.

Clutch: Todd's crazy EVOMSit tune blew through my stock clutch in a hurry. I do have a few more mods than what you are looking at though. All kidding aside, your stock clutch should be ok for a while. When it's time to replace, go with the Sachs stage 2. Light weight flywheel is really optional, but the increased throttle repsonse is incredible. Make sure you do the GT2 clutch slave cylinder conversion. This eliminates the stock hydraulic unit and makes it like a GT2 clutch. You therefore eliminate the on/off feel and get the ability to modulate the clutch better.

Suspension: You have to do something with the suspension. The stock setup is way too soft and has way too much understeer. A good set of coilovers, sways, drop links, corner balance, and a GT2 or GT3 alignemnt setup will solve all of your problems. Bilstein PSS10's are real popular for street cars with the occasional track day use. If you want to make it a real track weapon, go with either the JRZ or Moton setup.


The good news is that there are a bunch of great vendors on this forum that can help you sort these things out. If I may recommend, talk to Alex at Sharkwerks or Ian/Todd at EVOMS. Great people to work with!!! Good luck with your mods!

[taylorcoleman]

Good luck with your mods.

As for your clutch question, you'll likely be fine with the stock clutch up to the 650hp mark (anything over an I recommend a Sachs Stage 2 as well).

I ran my turbo at ~670HP and the clutch slipped during very hard acceleration from a dig and from 4th - 6th gear pulls (but not all the time). So I think you can get away with the stock clutch for a while (not sure how long, and it would depend on your driving style). Just be sure to factor in a new clutch cost maybe in the 6-month timeframe after upgrading your ECU and exhaust.

[bbywu]

Can we sticky this? Seems to be a recurrent topic...

and regarding the clutch...there are several members who have either experienced slip or have dynos that show a significant drop off with just a flash and exhaust. I think cannga has a dyno showing some problems up top, eclou had to swap clutches (actually pressure plate) on race gas, and a few others...and for the record, the slip is due to the pressure plate...most of the clutches show pretty minimal wear when they are swapped out.

[Rhonda@FVD]

Originally Posted by AutoBond007

Hello all,

I'm currently in the process of researching ECU upgrades for my baby and I need a bit of advice from the transmission gurus of this forum. Some of the advertised software gains from several tuners are quite impressive. Many look like they would shred though my OEM clutch despite having low miles. What have people found? Is an upgraded clutch immediately required or recommended?

I plan to run both our local 93 octane fuel and possibly Sunoco 100 octane, especially on track days. When I'm behind the wheel I'd say I have a heavy foot and I love the feeling I get ripping into it when no one else is around. I do plan to take the car to the track possibly once or twice next year for driving lessons but I'm not interested in drag racing.

Basically, what does everyone recommend for a driver like me?

Modification Plans
1. ECU Upgrade/software
2. 93 Octane daily and 100 Octane on special occasions.
3. Possibly a full exhaust depending on noise levels (still need to research).

Driving Habits/Plans
1. Mild daily driving. I drive the car after work more than once a week and on the weekends so it doesn't just sit in my garage.
2. Heavy foot off the line.
3. Heavy foot all the time to be honest.
5. Interested in driving lessons on the track.
6. No plans to drag race. (Only real racing for me!)

Clutch Feeling
1. I don't want an on/off switch if possible.
2. Would not mind keeping the OEM clutch if it can get me though one or two driving lessons on the track.

Thank you!

AutoBond007,

Glad to see you doing your research. Tuning is truely subjective and choosing a tuner to fit your criteria is vital. Our level 1 through 3 can be used with a stock clutch under the conditions you mentioned above. I see that you are in florida. We are located in South Florida, more specifically Deerfield Beach. We would be happy to meet with you to discuss your options or give me a call directly.

Our software is a Do it yourself option that allow's you to flash back to stock if you would like. You also get diagnostic software free with our flash cable.

Here is more information on our software....

Thanks,
Rhonda

[Rennsport-1]

Auto,
We understand that you have many choices when it comes to ECU tuning for your 997TT. Here is some information about our EVOMSit software. I will also be more than happy to put you in touch with local ( Florida ) customers and they can tell your first hand their experience and thoughts for the software.

Rs1 Team


EVOMSit
The EVOMSit ECU Tuning for the Porsche 997TT is an elite technology product that has been tested under the most grueling conditions during dyno test simulation as well as during real world driving on the street and track by the EVOMS team drivers as well as through our eDRIVE independent product validation program. Rigorous testing under extreme conditions has been conducted and evaluated with various fuel octane grades in the heat of the dry Arizona desert, the cool temperatures and humid weather of the California coast, the high elevation of the Colorado Mountains, the heat and ocean humidity of Mexico and the frigid elements of Minnesota. Our stringent methods used during our testing phases are on par with the testing utilized by Porsche prior to public release of new models. This stringent and grueling method of testing assures pure, crisp and consistent power in all of the conditions that drivers demand.


HP Gain 93 Octane: 90

TQ Gain 93 Octane: 90

HP Gain 100+ Octane: 100

TQ Gain 100+ Octane: 100



- Additional Cost applies for Stage 2,3,4,5

About IST
IST is an OEM feature that is built into the factory ECU and allows for automatic switching of ignition timing maps based upon input received from other engine sensors. Available for certain EVOMSit performance programs, the EVOMSit IST programming incorporates this intelligence for true and safe flexible power without compromise. The EVOMSit ECU tuning utilizes the multiple OEM ignition tables in progressive stages, which can optimize safe performance based upon outside conditions and different octane fuels. The ECU automatically switches to the best-suited ignition map creating an automatic “race mode” if race fuel is utilized. This IST function is always active and will switch automatically without having to physically change anything. IST is far more intelligent than any manual switcher found in the market. The use of manual switchers can cause serious engine damage if accidentally switched to a “race mode” without having race fuel in the car. This manual type of switching technology physically locks the timing map and can over ride the ECU’s ability to protect itself if unfavorable conditions exist. This manual switching is archaic considering that OEM ECU has the ability to analyze conditions and switch timing maps automatically. EVOMSit with IST is the intelligent way to utilize ECU timing map switching.

About SP
All E-Gas (drive by wire) cars from model year 2000 and newer have an electronic throttle valve, which is controlled by the cars ECU. Available for certain EVOMSit performance programs, EVOMSit Sport Pedal™ (SP) feature changes the ratio of accelerator pedal movement verses opening of the throttle valve which will increase throttle response. By modifying these maps in the ECU calibration, throttle response is drastically improved and the “throttle delay” which is a common complaint among enthusiasts is eliminated. Certain cars contain an OEM “sport mode” which incorporates this same Sport Pedal™ feature. For these cars, we incorporate the OEM “sport mode” pedal calibration for the regular mode and further increase the responsiveness of the “sport mode” with our improved calibration.

[ysfg35]

try softronic tune ,, you can do it in your home ,, make the car fly
good luck bro

[AutoBond007]

Thank you so much for the overwhelming responses. From my research I've noticed some tuners list wheel power while others list engine or crank power. I see that's often a whole other debate which I'm not interested in at this time. Taylor Coleman, you mentioned you started noticing slip over 650hp. Was this power you measured at the wheels or estimated at the crank? Regardless, I'll look into some of the clutch options suggested here and keep in mind a strong possibility for upgrading, just to be safe.

It seems there are also many options on the market for software so I may have more homework on my plate than I originally expected. I want to do my research so I know I'm going with a company that keeping everything safe and smooth, not just powerful. I've started a requirements checklist but I'll get into that later.

I'm new to this forum so searching and reading will likely yield good results, but maybe someone reading this has the answer right at the tip of their tongue. Does anyone have an ECU software FAQ list showing tuners and other important information?

Lastly do many people here pay for dynomometer testing before and after modifications? Compared to the cost of software, it seems dyno testing is relatively inexpensive and may actually prove to be quite fun.

[Tom@Rennsport-1]

AutoBond, where are you located in Florida? We love helping out our local Floridian 6Speeders . I agree with what everyone has said above. With an ECU and upgraded exhaust, you will be fine on the stock clutch. I can't possibly say enough good things about the EVOMSit software upgrade that we offer. We've done the ECU so many times and have yet to encounter an unsatisfied customer. It's just that good! Daily driveability is excellent, power increase is phenomenal, and the best part about it, you've got a 45 day guarantee that you'll love it!

Feel free to give me a buzz sometime, I'd be more then happy to go over some of the added benefits of the EVOMSit software with you. You can also email me if that's more convenient at tom@rennsport-one.com.

[cannga]

Hi there,

I think the response has been overwhelming because your post is very well thought out.
I don't know how familiar you are with Turbo mods, so if my answer is redundant, just ignore . I've gone through the 3 most common mods for the Turbo (suspension, exhaust, ecu) and here's my opinion:

1. As someone has mentioned, before you do the ECU tune, I would strongly recommend that you consider stiffening up the suspension first. Turbo stock suspension is too soft (even Porsche now has admitted so as reflected in the suspension revision of the facelift Turbo) and more power would likely make the car rock and roll like a drunkard. Click on the Bilstein link on my signature for some basic info. The suspension mod is IMHO the single most important thing you could do to improve the Turbo as a sports car.

2. Also, before you do the ECU tune, ***ALL*** competent tuners would suggest that you change to an after-market exhaust as the ECU tune does not work well with the stock unit (too much back pressure). While there are many good systems on the market, 2 exhaust systems that I would recommend you look into are: Tubi and Cargraphic. Tubi is more quiet, Cargraphic louder and has more low frequency grunt. Both are among the more expensive on the market but they are so for a reason. Listen to both and make your choice. If you need some info on Cargraphic, click on link in my signature.

3. Lastly the ECU tune itself: Were I to look into getting one today, I would consider one of the following 4: EVOMS, GIAC, Protomotive, and Switzer, if at least, or only, for the simple reason that they are the 4 most common ones and have been well tested by "forum reviews" and public opinion. If you like some info on GIAC and why I like it, link is in my signature.

4. Your original question, clutch: Too early to worry about it now. As per bbywu's and Gotboost's posts, there have been incidents of stock clutch slipping with stage 2 ECU tune (stage 2 meaning ECU and exhaust), but I think it's very rare. In my case, it ONLY happened once when I was being extremely abusive -- slamming on throttle from early rpm -- and my ECU tune is actually a custom tune and might have a little more power than normal. I am still on the stock clutch doing fine now, even when there is aggressive driving.
BTW, the magic number for stock clutch rating per my extensive web research : around 550 lb-ft/750 Nm of torque; this would be typically seen in a stage 3 (ECU, exhaust, and intercooler) and above mod.
And the clutch to get in case it happens, was posted by "eclou" here: Fly wheel and Sachs racing clutch
The upgrade path for stock drivability and feel:
1. Stage 2 - Sachs pressure plate xxxxx752 and organic clutch disc xxxxxx973
2. 700 kit or higher - Sachs pressure plate xxxxx764 and organic clutch disc xxxxx973.

Modded correctly, the Turbo will become an incomparable car/daily driver. So research carefully, good luck, and have fun!

[Josh@TPCRACING]

When it comes to building a fast 997Turbo, TPCRacing is your best choice. We are road racers....not street racers. All of our products are designed to reduce lap times. Our vast knowledge comes from nearly 20 years of PROFESSIONAL RACING in the Rolex Grand Am Series as well as IMSA. However, didn't race just to be able to say we're racers. We race to WIN, including the 2006 victory at the 24 Hours of Daytona(and 2 previous 2nd place finishes) as well as the 2004 Rolex SGS Championship.

All of our knowledge on building fast Porsches has been funneled into our R&D of the best modifications you can possibly purchase.

You mentioned that you have a somewhat heavy right foot; that you like to get off the line quickly. All of our power upgrades focus on optimizing the outstanding VTG turbochargers that your car is equipped with. The reason for using these turbos, instead upgrading to conventional turbos, is their ability to provide MONSTEROUS torque.

When you are looking at any tuning, always search for dynos from each company. This is not so much a measure of horsepower, but more a statement of how smooth and well integrate the ECU tune is. If the dyno chart goes wavy any RPM, what you are looking at is an improper tune. Also, pay attention to what boost levels tuners are using as well as what type of fuel was used on each dyno. One other thing to consider is conversion factor. The standard conversion between WHP and BHP is 15%. There are some campanies that will use anything from 15% up to nearly 20% which can cause a huge variation in final HP numbers.

Check out the TPCRacing 775Blitzkrieg here. The TPCRacing 775B make all 775bhp while using 93 octane fuel. Even on low a lowered power setting, this kit can rip you through the 1/4 at 10.65 @ 135mph...and that is in a 6-speed car...not TIPTRONIC.

As far as your clutch goes, until you start hitting the 700hp mark, your stock units will be more than adequate.

If road racing is your interest, we also carry a full line of high performance suspension modifications including our adjustable sway bars, custom tuned coilovers that will allow you to retain PASM, JRZ Coilovers, and toe/drop links. We are also more than happy to provide our customers with custom setup information for any track around the country. That is the benefit of having an in house PRO RACECAR DRIVER who is also your head engineer.

If you have any questions, please feel free to contact us, we are always more than happy to help!