New Suspension & Alignment Done. Track Ready!
#61
02-21-2012, 06:40 AM
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Ocala, FL
Posts: 1,231
Rep Power: 89 
Yes, reset it for no charge. Bacon is good!
#62
02-22-2012, 04:13 AM
Paul, my questions to Ira of Tarett and his answers (in blue), in reference to http://www.tarett.com/items/996-997-...kit-detail.htm . It appears the difference between 996 and 997 LCA is not length, but the thickness of that thrust arm bushing (the round bushing on the LCA itself that connects to the trust arm in front of the LCA if I am not mistaken).
BTW for anyone reading this, if you have a favorite vendor already - never mind, otherwise I would most highly recommend Tarett stuffs. I learned of Tarett from guys on Rennlist's racing forum - it's the "real" thing and it's been around a long long long time (the key
), and Ira is a knowledgeable and superb help.
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1. On your web site, it appears you are offering 996 (**not** 997) GT3 LCA for 997. Why is it that there is no 997 GT3 LCA?
We carry the 996 GT3 LCA mostly because of price and availability. I sell them to 997 and 987 customers .... I’ve sold a few 997 cup LCA’s, but they are much more expensive.
2. And for 997, you need to use a "trailing arm adapter" kit? Why is this necessary please?
The thrust arm bushing of the front LCA on the 997 and 987 is thicker than the 996 one is. The rear is the same as on the 996. To make up the difference in thickness, we have an adaptor spacer kit that takes up the extra space. The other option is to change the thrust arms to the 996 ones, which is much more expensive.
3. Is the length of 996 GT3 LCA different from that of 997 GT3 LCA? Is this why the trailing arm adapter kit is necessary?
The cup arms come with a 10mm shim, and end up being about 20mm longer than the 996 arms overall. I don’t know how they compare with the 997 arms, but I’ve always based the shim quantity on the 997 and 996 arms being the same length, and it’s always worked out about right.
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BTW for anyone reading this, if you have a favorite vendor already - never mind, otherwise I would most highly recommend Tarett stuffs. I learned of Tarett from guys on Rennlist's racing forum - it's the "real" thing and it's been around a long long long time (the key
), and Ira is a knowledgeable and superb help.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
1. On your web site, it appears you are offering 996 (**not** 997) GT3 LCA for 997. Why is it that there is no 997 GT3 LCA?
We carry the 996 GT3 LCA mostly because of price and availability. I sell them to 997 and 987 customers .... I’ve sold a few 997 cup LCA’s, but they are much more expensive.
2. And for 997, you need to use a "trailing arm adapter" kit? Why is this necessary please?
The thrust arm bushing of the front LCA on the 997 and 987 is thicker than the 996 one is. The rear is the same as on the 996. To make up the difference in thickness, we have an adaptor spacer kit that takes up the extra space. The other option is to change the thrust arms to the 996 ones, which is much more expensive.
3. Is the length of 996 GT3 LCA different from that of 997 GT3 LCA? Is this why the trailing arm adapter kit is necessary?
The cup arms come with a 10mm shim, and end up being about 20mm longer than the 996 arms overall. I don’t know how they compare with the 997 arms, but I’ve always based the shim quantity on the 997 and 996 arms being the same length, and it’s always worked out about right.
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Can, ask him if he took the 10mm shim off the 997 LCA's, what shim thickness is needed to make the 996 LCA the same length as the 997 arm? Is he able to be specific?
Phew. As last man on that job his head was on the block so nice recovery and good to hear it's finalised. Did he specify what shims he used on the 997 arms to get the 2.5? Also how does it drive after the Tarett plates and full reset? Any different than before?
#63
02-22-2012, 09:29 AM
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Ocala, FL
Posts: 1,231
Rep Power: 89 It is at the shop now getting done. The goal is a max of 5mm on the bottom (which are the 996 GT3 LCAs) and the Taretts on top.
After the install they will re do the alignment and check corner weights and I can give you guys a full report.
I didn't drive the car much after the initial install because I got the info from you guys shorty after I got it back so I let her sit in the garage until I got the replacement parts and I trailered it to the shop. For the max of 5-6 miles of driving it was like a razor blade compared to stock!
#64
02-27-2012, 09:35 AM
Why do people want more positive caster at the track? For more directional feel? Or are they using caster stagger? TIA
#65
02-27-2012, 09:49 AM
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Ocala, FL
Posts: 1,231
Rep Power: 89 eclou, thanks for the informative post, as always. So the different pivot lines of Turbo versus GT2 are related to the 4wd system? I feel a little better.
Why do people want more positive caster at the track? For more directional feel? Or are they using caster stagger? TIA
Why do people want more positive caster at the track? For more directional feel? Or are they using caster stagger? TIA
There is a fine line as to how much though. Too much can make the steering heavy and slower to react, at least on non assisted steering. I felt with this on my older Alfa race cars.
#66
02-29-2012, 10:12 AM
But yes, the way I understand it is (anyone pls correct as needed) if you just want max front camber of around -2 (Our stock car maxes out at around -1.1, the camber plate adds about -1, for total around -2.1.), then the camber plate is a simpler and less expensive solution than LCA. And perhaps invokes less of a geometry change than the LCA.
It is when you need more camber at the track (like DocGTO) that you need both camber plate and LCA.
This is really an excellent thread. I believe the 3D geometry relationship between the various links that we play around with are not considered often enough and could certainly be the cause of the various suspension mod problems we've seen: for example the LCA here and most definitely IMHO the sway bar/drop link problems.
Doc thanks for above reply.
Last edited by cannga; 02-29-2012 at 10:53 AM.
#67
02-29-2012, 03:03 PM
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Ocala, FL
Posts: 1,231
Rep Power: 89 Hi Paul, no I don't have a camber plate on my car; my setup is still simply Bilstein + GMG sway as the car is a strict daily driver. The cambers are set at -1.1 front/-1.6 rear and per the even tire wear my tuner suggests that is all I need.
But yes, the way I understand it is (anyone pls correct as needed) if you just want max front camber of around -2 (Our stock car maxes out at around -1.1, the camber plate adds about -1, for total around -2.1.), then the camber plate is a simpler and less expensive solution than LCA. And perhaps invokes less of a geometry change than the LCA.
It is when you need more camber at the track (like DocGTO) that you need both camber plate and LCA.
This is really an excellent thread. I believe the 3D geometry relationship between the various links that we play around with are not considered often enough and could certainly be the cause of the various suspension mod problems we've seen: for example the LCA here and most definitely IMHO the sway bar/drop link problems.
Doc thanks for above reply.
But yes, the way I understand it is (anyone pls correct as needed) if you just want max front camber of around -2 (Our stock car maxes out at around -1.1, the camber plate adds about -1, for total around -2.1.), then the camber plate is a simpler and less expensive solution than LCA. And perhaps invokes less of a geometry change than the LCA.
It is when you need more camber at the track (like DocGTO) that you need both camber plate and LCA.
This is really an excellent thread. I believe the 3D geometry relationship between the various links that we play around with are not considered often enough and could certainly be the cause of the various suspension mod problems we've seen: for example the LCA here and most definitely IMHO the sway bar/drop link problems.
Doc thanks for above reply.
For more track use the best setup is about -2.5 so you do need to add the 996 GT3 LCA with a 5mm spacer.
#68
02-29-2012, 04:22 PM
am running 2.5 degrees camber with our camber plates on a tt. We just opened up the factory adjustment hole. But its at the limit really. Once some shop at P Ricard tried to do it with shims and the front diff axle came out! Not good..
BTW cannga -2 degrees is perfect for corsas even for the road. They are designed to run with more camber than most tires.
BTW cannga -2 degrees is perfect for corsas even for the road. They are designed to run with more camber than most tires.
#69
03-01-2012, 08:28 AM
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Ocala, FL
Posts: 1,231
Rep Power: 89 am running 2.5 degrees camber with our camber plates on a tt. We just opened up the factory adjustment hole. But its at the limit really. Once some shop at P Ricard tried to do it with shims and the front diff axle came out! Not good..
BTW cannga -2 degrees is perfect for corsas even for the road. They are designed to run with more camber than most tires.
BTW cannga -2 degrees is perfect for corsas even for the road. They are designed to run with more camber than most tires.
Yes, anymore the 5mm on the bottom is an issue.
#70
03-07-2012, 11:38 AM
Sorry if this is a dumb question. But are these Tarett camber plates adjustable after they have been installed? Or do you set them and then install them and thats how they are till you pull them off again?
http://www.tarett.com/items/996-997-products/996-997-suspension/996-997-monoballs~bushings/996-986-front-camber-plate-set-996fc4fsmt-detail.htm
The rear plates don't even mention the ability to change the camber at all.
http://www.tarett.com/items/996-997-products/996-997-suspension/996-997-monoballs~bushings/996-rear-camber-plate-set-996rsmt-detail.htm?repost=1&start=0&Count_Class_1_1213443= 7796473#ITEM_1213443
I'm looking at the GNG sway bars and springs; if this is the ideal way to go for someone that wants to do 3-4 PDX's a year it seems like that would be a good time to install something like this.
http://www.tarett.com/items/996-997-products/996-997-suspension/996-997-monoballs~bushings/996-986-front-camber-plate-set-996fc4fsmt-detail.htm
The rear plates don't even mention the ability to change the camber at all.
http://www.tarett.com/items/996-997-products/996-997-suspension/996-997-monoballs~bushings/996-rear-camber-plate-set-996rsmt-detail.htm?repost=1&start=0&Count_Class_1_1213443= 7796473#ITEM_1213443
I'm looking at the GNG sway bars and springs; if this is the ideal way to go for someone that wants to do 3-4 PDX's a year it seems like that would be a good time to install something like this.
#71
03-07-2012, 12:05 PM
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Ocala, FL
Posts: 1,231
Rep Power: 89 Sorry if this is a dumb question. But are these Tarett camber plates adjustable after they have been installed? Or do you set them and then install them and thats how they are till you pull them off again?
http://www.tarett.com/items/996-997-products/996-997-suspension/996-997-monoballs~bushings/996-986-front-camber-plate-set-996fc4fsmt-detail.htm
The rear plates don't even mention the ability to change the camber at all.
http://www.tarett.com/items/996-997-products/996-997-suspension/996-997-monoballs~bushings/996-rear-camber-plate-set-996rsmt-detail.htm?repost=1&start=0&Count_Class_1_1213443= 7796473#ITEM_1213443
I'm looking at the GNG sway bars and springs; if this is the ideal way to go for someone that wants to do 3-4 PDX's a year it seems like that would be a good time to install something like this.
http://www.tarett.com/items/996-997-products/996-997-suspension/996-997-monoballs~bushings/996-986-front-camber-plate-set-996fc4fsmt-detail.htm
The rear plates don't even mention the ability to change the camber at all.
http://www.tarett.com/items/996-997-products/996-997-suspension/996-997-monoballs~bushings/996-rear-camber-plate-set-996rsmt-detail.htm?repost=1&start=0&Count_Class_1_1213443= 7796473#ITEM_1213443
I'm looking at the GNG sway bars and springs; if this is the ideal way to go for someone that wants to do 3-4 PDX's a year it seems like that would be a good time to install something like this.
You don't need the rears in most situations. I got the desired -2.0 off my factory setup.
#74
03-21-2012, 09:31 AM
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Ocala, FL
Posts: 1,231
Rep Power: 89
I got the car back this past weekend. Front end is set up much better and the axles have plenty of room now. It goes in for the re-alignment this Friday and we will also double check the sway bar end links to make sure they are still good to go. Those camber plates from Tarett are very nice, high quality pieces!
We also did the Sachs stage 2.5 clutch from AWE and 1 step colder plugs in preparation for a tune. That clutch is fantastic!!!
We also did the Sachs stage 2.5 clutch from AWE and 1 step colder plugs in preparation for a tune. That clutch is fantastic!!!
#75
03-21-2012, 10:15 AM
Cool man. Are you able to adjust them installed or you adjust them before install?