Then all I ask is that you let people know that. See the way you said it was that the car is no better than an m3 without a new suspension.

Make fun of my tip all you want. I won't lose any sleep. If someone asks why I got it? Because it's faster than a manual. Sorry but that's the facts.
It's the first auto I have owned in my life.

I could again point out you are giving suspension advice when you haven't the first clue where to start. Or you bought Ti lugs when you should have gone cl but you are looking to mod for fun.

So I have no argument with you. You stated why you feel the suspension is not up to par. That is you opinion and we have a frame of reference to go off why you think so. That IMHO us a legit reason whether it's true or not is up to the person in the seat.

I hope you can see my point. If not. Then proceed joining the others so offended about my tip comments from 2 months ago. Facts but have at it. Likewise with suspension, my initial assessments were correct. While it's fine to do what you want. It comes across like you have the experience in suspensions and some people without the feel you desire can badly hurt themselves because they are getting into a car with power they can't handle and a setup that is designed by reading forums....

Lata

 

I never said post counts mattered. I was just merely pointing out that some folks you attacked here are respected contributing members of this forum for many years. It doesn't matter what their post counts are.

I never eluded to you being clueless or your post count, so I don't know why Mark Weber even comes into this conversation. I'm sure he wants to do other things on his off time than talk about cars with us weekend warriors anyways..

I was merely pointing out that many others have had more seat time in the 997tt than you thus, maybe you should respect some of their opinions rather than acting like you are the absolute authority on the subject matter.

I agree that not everyone is an expert and neither am I for that matter. Having said that, if someone wants to recommend something based on their personal experience, then there is nothing wrong with that. I do have a problem with someone acting like they know it all and tells everyone else that they are clueless if their views don't align with theirs. I really do not have a problem with you disagreeing with anyone. I really don't. I do have a problem with your approach. Case in point, I still have not called you clueless or called you names.... I am just merely disagreeing with your approach to the discussion.

To get back to the original point, I was not very impressed with the 997tt in stock form. Maybe if I was coming out of an M3 or something in that range I would have been blown away. Coming out of a modded 996tt, I wasn't impressed with it. This is all relative you see? I got A LOT MORE satisfaction out of the car after modding. Again, that is my prerogative right?

 

Somehow the OP/Troll achieved his purpose - we're back to meaningless arguments re what is better. I really don't care what other folks drive - I like my car perfectly well and I don't have to justify it to anyone but me...and I always win that argument

 

Right but passing your suspension advice off as a must have....results in most people thinking it's more than a desire to mod that drove you too it. See to the average Joe you are changing it for an informed and probably track or racing based reasons. All I want to point out is you guys aren't changing it because you track that car. It's because you want to.
Some guys buy 20+ inch wheels. Might hurt performance but they accept that for the look. Acting like the car is crap without them ....is misleading

I fly, so it's like me insisting that you need a plane that can pull 6plus gs when i don't even know how to do an aileron roll.

 

I don't care either but I do have an issue with people posting their personal looks or feel bias.....not based on facts or track.... opinions as it's very misleading.
We crush vendors for doing this. But members are cleared hot to engage at will on it.

 

Not in the least. I really appreciate all of the thoughful responses. For me to be happy it sounds like I need to budget for a couple "must have" mods. I have driven a 3rd turbo now so I have a pretty good idea what I am getting myself into.

I never said my M3 was as fast as a 997 turbo (although I think it was faster than the first car I drove as it was not running correctly). The M3 being a 4 door sedan is by definition a compromise and is by no means a fast car (unless you are one of the fanboys on M3 post who bases their review on the only other car they have driven being a Camry) and I wish it had more torque.

 

Before you decide you're gonna need mods. Drive it and read up...not on forums about it.

As you've seen there are a lot of opinions on what is needed. Some guys buy suspension parts before the car... all because they read they needed them. If you like it drive it a bit then decide.
Oh and don't be narrow minded and only TRY a manual. The tip might just blow you away like it did for me. Back to back there was no comparison. You might like the manual but don't go dropping this kind of money without getting all your questions answered. Then whichever car you end up in you will know it's the right one for you.


Question on the torque comment. As it accelerated from 40-60 in less than a second can you tell me which version you drove manual or tip and when did you feel the lack of torque

 

Not a troll and I do think I am a perceptive driver but perhaps not. I ride and race motorcycles and cars as often as my busy schedule allows so I am not your typical forum jockey. When I go out with the cars or bikes I am usually in the "A" group.

I think after having a lot of fast toys I was just expecting a lot.

 

Alright, I apologize if you are indeed not laughing at us Turbo owners getting "our panties in a bunch" over your seemingly simple comment. Peace. First forget the sports bike comparison ok? Goodness that's not even fair and yes I made the mistake of "racing" a guy once :-). Total annihilation and destruction all within 1.5 seconds LOL. To be serious, where did you do your test drives? I hope not Newport Beach, but some canyon somewhere where you could go all out? Did you come anywhere close to WOT? What transmission do you like, what transmissions were the 3 Turbo's, and what transmission is your M3? You know and I know these are important factors that were left out. Back to the topic of not impressed; all IMHO, 3 aspects that would affect first subjective impression, let's discuss them:

1. Suspension: Subjective, some like stock Turbo as is (*nothing* wrong with this, personal preference), ***FOR ME*** this is THE weakest aspect of the Turbo as a *sports* car, and I could understand why you are not impressed. So here, if you come from a sports bike and race car, yes I understand. You will need to stiffen the Turbo suspension to increase excitement. If you have any doubt just look at the numerous suspension and PASM mod posts in this forum. It's the law of physics and the most basic of car's handling principles that a lower and stiffer car will be more exciting to drive (and faster at the track) from lower COG, less weight transfer, less body lean, less camber change on inside wheels, etc., and of course, less comfortable (the ride vs. handling dichotomy).
2. Sound: Here you are again correct. Stock for stock M3 wins hands down. The Turbo stock exhaust sounds like a whinny hair dryer. Some like it, a lot of us despise this sound and exchange to after-market exhaust. If *all* 3 Turbo's you drive had only stock exhaust, then you should terminate friendship with these people (j/k).
3. Power: I read it again and you are right, you did NOT say unimpressed *compared* to M3; we just made that assumption and jumped all over you. Sorry! There are multiple double M3-Turbo owners here and we know it should take no more than a nanosecond to know there is no comparison whatsoever between the 2 cars. One is what, 400 lbs heavier than the other? And the lighter one has 450 lb-ft torque, at 3000 rpm, right? And if you test a PDK Turbo, we will jump all over you again (kidding) if you say you are not impressed with that car's stupendous acceleration. Subjectively The Turbo feels a lot more powerful than Ferrari F430, 2009 Corvette, and Lamborghini V10 (cars that I've driven back to back with the Turbo) because of this low end torque, and the PDK Turbo or a tuned Turbo will annihilate them all.

Lastly, I should touch on why a 130,000 car needs modification to be impressive? It is not because Porsche engineers are incompetent (they are the world's best IMHO), it's because Porsche intentionally designs the Turbo that way: traditionally the Turbo is always meant to be more of a quiet, comfortable, fast Grand Tourer, its cousins the GT3 and GT2 being the bad-*** race cars. On a scale of 1 to 10 of being "aggressive sports car", *for me*, the stock Turbo is a 3, the GT3/GT2 are 8, and a modded Turbo is somewhere in between, maybe a 6, which is perfect compromise for a number of us. There is no right or wrong, each of us mods the car to the level we like; you... very likely would put a Bilstein on first thing :-). So... welcome to the Turbo forum, in a nutshell, love my PDK M3 but, as a sports car, no comparison whatsoever to my manual Turbo. Go for the Turbo, you will not regret it. BTW I do think a Manual Porsche Turbo + e90 PDK BMW M3 combination is for the ages and would recommend it highly; each provides something that the other doesn't.

 

Sure the tip is faster, but only if you driving ambition is going in a straight line. And for that use case there is better choices out there.

The tip isnt the gearbox of choice on the track, and the 911 has always been a track car.

Just buy a Dodge and go to the 1/4 mile instead sir!

 

Explain how it is just faster in a straight line. Even Porsche factory drivers say it's faster around the track.. It's the same car that's shifts faster than a human can shift. Not as fast as a pdk but still faster.
It's faster in every aspect. Nice try though

Seriously stop living in the 90s where a 4cyl manual was faster than a 6cyl auto.

 

Guys this whole thread reminds me of my youth at HOT ROD BURGER KING. Countless hours spend with the hood up ogling engines, exhaust notes, and traction bars LOL.


Everyone should enjoy their car (and life). Drive what you love, and can swing. I am happy to be here in the P car brotherhood and have dreamed about my current and first P car most of my life. My car is stock and most likely will stay that way. And I am happy with it every time I drive it. Best luxury cruiser I have owned that is comfortable in Drive, fun around town in Sport and a rocket in sport plus. Its fast enough for me (right now, plus I enjoy the reliability I have lost after modding other cars) Others on this board are faster and handle better around a track, but for me, I am good. Live and let live.


Really, I am surprised at the turn this thread has taken. We usually are a much more mature audience.

 

Haven't you heard of the new meaning of tolerance it only applies if I tolerate you.

 

Any videos of your car?

 

What are we looking at here?