With the new Companies out there I am starting a new thread to give everyone a chance to respond. Well except Softronic. Until Scott has an option for those that already bought a Durametric, I dont want to hear about his tune. There are plenty of other tunes that are new and some mainstays.

Personally I am down to a EPL and a FVD. Vendors and tuners feel free to do your best sales jobs. Dyno charts are welcome. ALSO, Safety is a huge concern and should be for all. Please tell us why we should trust that your tune will not grenade my engine. One of my big fears of using a tune based of someone elses gains is that we dont know the A/F etc on that car.

Yeah the gains are impressive but if its lean, my engine could grenade and while the number was the greatest just before the bang that doesn't help me.... Im lookin at you Cobb that tune scares me for that reason, you have a number of people that are sending tunes but are they getting the safest or the most powerful. Ragged edge of power is ragged edge of 20k on a new engine.

 

Are tunes are very safe. We supply a system to be able to log so that each customer can be sure how safe they are. We do not hide anything. We are probably the most liberal in terms of data actually, so this pointed at us is a little odd.

That being said lots of great options and you are going to get lots of opinions. Customers need to research and find what works best for there car. This is just going to turn into a pissing match that has been done before.

-Mitch

 

What current mods are on your 997.1 currently? and what future plans as in 6-12 months down the line are you thinking, this all has to be taken into affect when choosing tuning and matching the right company/tuner for the job.

We have had success so far with the cobb product on multiple different combos on here and a few owners upon their approval can be tagged to back these claims that we got a lot more using cobb with their cars then their prior brand tunes. Again its not the cobb its the actual tuner you choose to go with using the cobb so be aware of that as well.

Contact me to discuss some options
Lawerence@undercover

Undercoverperformanceinc@gmail.com

 

I'm not a tuner, but am a current customer of Cobb,. I've also had a tune by another vendor mentioned.
This thread will certainly turn into a pissing match unfortunately. Everyone will try to explain why their product is the best and rightfully so. I always thought it was important how the vendor handled themselves and promoting their product rather than trying to discredit their competition. There are some good tuners out there who do have safe tunes. If not, you would likely hear about it on the forums.
I just want to comment about what you said about Cobb... I don't know enough about most other vendors so hopefully no one takes this out of context. This is in reference to Cobb only
I personally made the switch to Cobb after literally months of deliberation and asking Mitch a million questions. In fact, I still ask Mitch a million questions The last thing I would ever want to do is grenade the motor on my 997.2 tts because of a tune on the edge of the motor's limits. In doing my research, I've come up with a couple reasons to justify why I went with Cobb and why I feel safe with my decision:
1) Cobb, in certain applications, does make more power than some other tunes. The reason why is because in addition to offering run of the mill tunes that are preloaded, they can customize a tune to your exact car. They don't take the most powerful tune they have ever done for an application then send it to everyone. They actually analyze the logs of your specific car, and/or tune it on a dyno while looking at every sensor and also logging.
2) That being said, a custom Cobb tune in most cases will make more power than a one-size-fits-all tune. It doesn't mean Cobb does it in an unsafe way because every car is different, fuel different, etc.
3) With the Cobb, you have the ability to both log any sensor on the car and also view those parameters real time. This is the most transparent method that I can think of and the reason why I bought Cobb. After having a Motec on another application, this was very important to me to see how my car is functioning
Hope that helps a little. If you have any questions that I can help with feel free to PM me.

 

I will honestly say that the Porsche platform has a lot of great options.

EPL I have not heard anything but great things, I am sure you can't go wrong.

GIAC makes fast cars and honestly it has been great competing with them and the Champion guys. Makes product better for all customers.

We are not out to sell every person with a Porsche a tune. We are just offering a different type of flash solution with top level customer support. These other options may be a better fit for some people.

This could again be a battle for days, but it again comes down to what works best for each customer.

-Mitch

 

Here's a market compare that one of my customers did in late 2014 (thank you... you know who you are )



As far as tuners "pushing the ragged edge". I think your beyond the point you need to worry about that. Most of the "bad" tuners have been weeded out at this point and there are MANY great options (everyone in the title of this thread for example)! I think what you (anyone with a 997) should focus on is what tuners are doing that's "different" and how much experience do the have with the platform.

Its the seeming simple stuff that actually makes a difference. Is the tuner producing their own tools for flash loading and data logging? Is the tuner offering features that aren't offered by many/most others? How many cars has the tuner actually tuned? Is the tuner using a 3rd party purchased tuning system?

Maybe some of these questions seem trivial, but I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that a product produced by someone that's been at it for a long time and is doing everything in house is generally better then when its not.

 

I have Protomotive and it is great but if I hadn't already paid for that tune I would go with Cobb without a doubt, I just can't stomach paying AGAIN for a tune.

Their Accessport3 and tuning software for individuals are unparalleled in the Porsche world.

The AP3 makes data logging and monitoring a piece of cake and they are the only tuner I know of that gives you access to the tune so you can see what is being done and modify it yourself if you want to do that.

I frankly HATE being tied to one tuner that encrypts their files and I can't see what they did. I feel as though I paid for it, I should be able to see it but unfortunately I bought my tune literally 2 weeks before Cobb announced their AP3.

I think Todd@Protomotive is one of if not the best tuner out there but again I would rather not being tied to using his proprietary flash software that I can't see what he did.

 

Great info, honestly this is spot on.

-Mitch

 

Another frankly bizarre post, Squat.

You want a tune that has transparency so that you can see what is being done, and then call out the one company that provides the most transparency of any flashing option out there?

IMO, the AP3 platform is unsurpassed. The datalogging suite is unparalleled. The durametric does not log everything that an AP can, and now you've got yet another cable and system, as well as laptop that you have to haul around in your car. You have your pick of canned tunes, or any of the protuners who can tune your car a little or much as you like.

Also, what exactly do you mean by the ragged edge? Everybody is concerned about saftey and reliability. The end user wants that because their $50k engine is at risk, and the tuner/ flashing platform wants it because if they pop a few motors due to poor workmanship, their reputation and investment is trashed. My car, for example, runs mid 11s AFR across the board and has zero knock related timing correction. Despite the fact that it is making a lot power, there's absolutely nothing "ragged edge" about the tune. It is very safe AND powerful...I'll take both, thanks.

 

Squat...I think a lot of your decision should be based on one main deciding factor: what your upgrade path is for the future.

For a completely stock car, you really can't go wrong with either...GIAC, Cobb, EPL, or FVD.

Beyond that you'd really have to decide what you see yourself wanting from the car in the future. If you don't think you'll go beyond a larger VTG setup, then our GIAC packages are pretty darn solid and proven/documented many times in the real world.

If you think you'll want to do a non-VTG setup (GT's or Alphas), then I'll be the first to tell you that you should choose a tuner who could support that now, so that you don't waste money in the future.

 

not an attack on you guys. I am sure you understand the dangers of running lean. Big power but big boom. With the abilities of tuners today car owners dont need to know anything just ask for more and more power. If they forget to tell the tuner someone important like altitude at the ragged edge of the A/F ratio you have the most power but the most wear on components. Car owners love the HP number they get so they unknowingly accept a risk they didnt really understand. I am sure you guys understand that or quickly will when the first Dude forgets to tell you what he is doing and blows his motor. He will blame you.

Again that is my concern using "tested" files. I want to know everything about the conditions and anything the car is doing.


My car is STOCK. I want to do a tune and maybe an exhaust, I was thinking about a Fabspeed, or something along those lines. I am not looking for a huge number.

 

Your attack on me again, shows you clearly dont understand the effect of environment on the A/F.

I am aware COBB has a stock file, which is the one I would probably use if I went with one. I have blow engines for the past 14 years. Blown meaning super/turbo charged. I have had engines built by ALMS teams. Any company will do what a customer asks. Sometimes the customer doesnt understand what they are asking for. One tank of bad gas on the ragged A/F edge will leave you pissed.

This is NOT an attack thread.

 

All the tuners mentioned give a great product with some benefits and shortcomings when compared to others but overall they are all great...

We offer a one week free trial period for your enjoyment and we modify your oem file meanwhile keeping it on the flasher so you can go back and forth at anytime... 5 tunes, launch control, brake boosting etc... all included for one competitive price, not to mention you get to talk to the programmer anytime via email/phone call and it comes with full support/ customer service( I often get a call from clients saying- they sold me a tune but now they will not respond to my calls)... for example, most P cars have boost/vacuum leaks... most shops let alone P-car owners have no clue how to diagnose the problems, I will personally show you how to save$900 dollars( I just did for a client when a shop told him they have to drop the motor to get to a leak) by sending you a leak tester, helping diagnose the issue and even fix it... that comes free with 911tuning tunes... and then some...
BTW, our client ran on a 93 octane tune with a completely stock 997.1 6speed a 10.9 sec run and trapped 125mph in the summer heat- july 20th... dynos are great but that should not be the only factor when deciding on a tuner... Heck, my car has not seen the dyno for 3 years yet I ran a 9.66 sec 1/4 mile... things that make you go hmmm

best,
markski

 

Its not going to be a pissing contest if you dont let it. There are always going to be people that have to ram their purchase down others throats. As a tuner you shouldn't be doing that, you should be explaining what yours does.


I disagree with you Tony on the bad tunes. Why? Because more and more guys are going to custom tunes. The assumption, correctly, by the tuner is that environment and dyno calibration has been taken into account.

Guys learn enough to kill themselves, they know what numbers they can fudge and the tuner has to depend 100% on the customer to provide the right data. If they dont the tuner will be blamed.

What I am looking for is a tune that works well with an exhaust. I dont care who puts the biggest number down on a cold 0% humidity day ( that the dyno guy set for higher so he gets a bigger number)
I want to know what makes you guys different.
1. your file delivery
2. ease and time to install/uninstall
3. Dyno numbers and TIME SHEET FROM YOU on a STOCK car or with an exhaust.

 

Thanks that is something I think we all need to know. Granted AP3 needs to make it so the customer signs a waiver the second they modify the file. Courts dont care what they sign when they buy the original, the customer will always claim ignorance and then the burden of proof shifts to the tuner.